Robmix, tell us about Christina Aquilera

[gainreduction]

Robmix, I saw an older post of yours while searching for something and it turns out you've worked quite a lot with Christina Aquilera, which your website confirms too.

I think she's fantastic so If you don't mind me asking, it would be cool to hear a little about your experiences working with her.

I can imagine her beeing the kind of vocalist who nails everything right away although still wants to redo stuff 'coz she knows what she's capable of. And probably in control over harmonies. Am i close ?

Is she a "dynamic nightmare" to record ? (as in everything from whisper to screams)

And of course, the gear ! Got that elam251 confirmed from the old thread, but what else has been in use ?

Congrats on your success !

[Resonater]

Before Rob jumps in on this, let me set the stage a bit. I've been working in Hollywood for about 3 decades now, and you know, once a project is successful, you're going to find all sorts of people claiming that they were instrumental in the success of said project/artist. "Basically, I was passing through Liverpool and I heard this band that I loved so much, I called my friend George at EMI and insisted that he sign them." "You know, I was the one who told Steven to make that shark movie in the first place." "I was sitting in a cafe with Mr. Lucas telling him my idea for a sci-fi trilogy set in a galaxy far, far away...".

Well, in Rob's case with Christina, IT'S ACTUALLY TRUE.

Rob (and his then girlfriend, Heather) put together the original song THAT GOT HER SIGNED AT RCA. Rob and Heather took Christina into a studio (her vocals for the song were done at my old studio, actually, Image Recording), produced the "demo" (master, really), which got Christina signed and that song ended up on Christina's first album. And Rob and Heather have continued to enjoy a longstanding relationship with Christina, to the great benefit of all parties.

So when Rob is telling his Christina story, please keep in mind...IT'S TRUE.

Sorry for the interruption...Rob, you may now continue!

[colinmiller]

He is right about it being true. I was sitting in a cafe with the 3 of them telling them that they really should go in and record a demo with the girl. Thank goodness I was the one that made up their minds. Not sure that that bit about everyone trying to take credit is about though...

[joelpatterson]

Yeah, and as the guy who waited on their table, I can say I had a crucial role, I mean, if I hadn't kept filling the water glasses, who knows how it all would have turned out?

[softwareguy]

What you might not remember is that they had a flat tire on their way from the restaurant to the record company. Thank god I came by and fixed it, because they were about ready to give up and go home, and who knows what would have happened then, because the A&R guy who signed Christina died the next day.

[joelpatterson]

Well, yeah, acutally I was the guy who bumped him off, but it was all part of the carefully calculated plan.

[Makinithappen]

Im the one who carefully calculated the plan. Thank god I did because who knows what would've happened otherwise.

[Curve Dominant]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Yeah, and as the guy who waited on their table, I can say I had a crucial role, I mean, if I hadn't kept filling the water glasses, who knows how it all would have turned out?

Listen Joel, if I wasn't washing dishes at the cafe that day, you wouldn't have HAD any water glasses on the table in the first place, so don't forget about ME, pal!

[Resonater]

Ah heck, now look what I started.















































Well, now that you guys mention it, I didn't want to act more crucial to the story than I really was, BUT, some months prior to Rob meeting Christina, I was a bit down on my luck and was moonlighting as a Tarot reader on Hollywood Blvd. One night this very attractive blond girl walks up and I read her cards. I saw great things for her, all very musically oriented. She asked me to produce all of her records until the end of time. I was about to say yes, when I remembered that my friend Rob was even more down on his luck than me. So, I gave the girl his number, and the rest is history.

The drag is that Rob NEVER mentions this in his telling of the Christina story. He and Heather just act like it was ALL THEM.

Hey, by the way, I have a special offer for Gearslutz members. $125.00 discount on your next Tarot reading by The Resonater.

[noiseflaw]

lol!

Can I bask in some of Christina's reflected glory too?

[DontLetMeDrown]

Damn, you guys crack me up. There will probably be 40 posts in here before Rob even sees this thread.

[mds]

Hey guys,

I have nothing to do with Christina, but I've worked for/with Rob a lot over the past couple of years. He's kinda inactive on GS lately and is in Poland and Tokyo for the next few weeks, so I wouldn't expect to hear from him right away...I'll send him an email and let him know his presence has been requested...

I can say this: Rob and Heather have nothing but positive things to say about Christina's talent. From their descriptions she has has all the goods. Huge voice, great control, and nails every take. Sounds like she's a really nice person too...at least she was the few times I answered the phone when she called. :-)

[robmix]

Wow, pretty funny. . . . . .

[robmix]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Robmix, I saw an older post of yours while searching for something and it turns out you've worked quite a lot with Christina Aquilera, which your website confirms too.

I think she's fantastic so If you don't mind me asking, it would be cool to hear a little about your experiences working with her.

I can imagine her beeing the kind of vocalist who nails everything right away although still wants to redo stuff 'coz she knows what she's capable of. And probably in control over harmonies. Am i close ?

Is she a "dynamic nightmare" to record ? (as in everything from whisper to screams)

And of course, the gear ! Got that elam251 confirmed from the old thread, but what else has been in use ?

Congrats on your success !

Thanks. She's awesome. Pretty much gets everything right on the first take but then spends a lot of time perfecting it. A lot like MJ in that regard. She will never compromise - no autotune, no studio magic, just hard work. Her attention to detail is overwhelming, like being able to pick out a flat note in the middle of some crazy R&B riff. She'll want to punch-in in the middle of these crazy runs . . . . . It's a pleasure to work wth an artist who knows exactly what they want.

Dynamic nightmare - yeah. She's got great mic technique but she's so loud. My friend Tony Black recorded her vocal for the Alicia Keys duet. He had everything setup when she walked in, levels were about where he usually set them for Alicia, and Christina opened her mouth on the chorus - sent him scrambling as the mic pre folded, and the compressor went to stun. It really is incredible to hear that much SPL out of 100lb woman.

Gear ? Well, the original demo was recorded in my home studio at the time. Probably either an Audio Technica 4033 or an AKG 414TLII into a Brent Averill 3405 mic pre followed by the TL Audio C1 comp to Sony PCM-800.

For the first record I recorded the vocal at Image as John mentioned above. Bruce Swedien's Sony C800G into a 1073 followed by an 1176 to 2" 24 track. As the record company deemed that vocal to be too good (I'm serious), we re-recorded the vocal at my house with the C800G into the 3405 followed by the DBX165a into the PCM-800 again. Everything was transfered to the SONY 3348 for the mix by Tommy Vicari. I've got a very nice memory from that record. We were all at Oasys mastering with Eddie Schreyer and Ron. They were going through the record and a few of the producers were there. As our song was the last one on the record I got to hear everyone else's tracks, and of course they were brilliant. I was getting kind of nervous, this was my first major label production. They put my track up and the vocal hit, and everyone kind of looked around like "whoa", Eddie turned around to Ron and said "that's what a vocal should like". Definitely a highlight.

The second record was the big vocal switch as suggested by Ron Fair - ELAM 251 into a 1073 then the EAR660. Honestly, not my favorite vocal chain for her, but as these records are a team effort I made it work for our songs. These all went direct to PT via Apogee AD8000, though the other producers just used 888/24's. I've heard that Linda Perry switches out the recording chain but I haven't been there when they're doing vocals.

We did a single for Germany before this last record, and that was a 251 from Oceanway into a Wunder PEQ1 followed by the EAR660. Really crunchy, brokeup nicely, but still accentuated that harsh upper midrange too much IMO.

I'll probably experiment some more next time we work together. I'm still not convinced that we've really found the right chain for her. I was really impressed with the vocal sound on the Herbie Hancock duet. One of those moments where you say "damn, I wish I had done that !!!!" If the vocal was done at her house it would have been a new 251 into a Brent Neve followed by the 660. But I can't confirm that.

I think that's about it. I can get pretty detailed if you have any specific questions. Thanks for the kind words and the very funny responses.

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by Curve Dominant

Listen Joel, if I wasn't washing dishes at the cafe that day, you wouldn't have HAD any water glasses on the table in the first place, so don't forget about ME, pal!

And I...?

I was that water glass...!

Sorry Rob, on with the thread...

Cheers,

bdp

[Sqye]

...

damn - funny thread, felluz...

thanks for the details, rob., and question, to begin with GR!

i laughed, i cried - wuddup, joel!! you a funny MF

it's bin a while - wutz kikkin' at the solar crib, yo?

..

[gainreduction]

Thanx Rob, very cool of you to share.

I see what you're saying about the mic choices. Like many female singers she has a lot going on in the 3-5k area which easily gets harsh. For me, the only mic so far that has behaved well in that area is the Brauner VM-1. Give it a shot...

Have you been involved in mixing her tracks aswell ? What kind of vocal treatment goes in to the mix ?

Have your relationship changed over the years as fame and massive success certainly affects most people in one way or another ?

[robmix]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Thanx Rob, very cool of you to share.

I see what you're saying about the mic choices. Like many female singers she has a lot going on in the 3-5k area which easily gets harsh. For me, the only mic so far that has behaved well in that area is the Brauner VM-1. Give it a shot...

Have you been involved in mixing her tracks aswell ? What kind of vocal treatment goes in to the mix ?

Have your relationship changed over the years as fame and massive success certainly affects most people in one way or another ?

I'll give the Brauner a try, thanks.

Of the released tracks I've done with her, I've mixed about half of them and had a few mix engineers do the rest. With the demo and the first record it was a Neve 2254 into a DBX902. For the latest stuff that I mixed it's always been the Purple MC76 into a DBX 902. I'm not sure what Peter Mokrin used on the the second record. I try not to get too geeky when I have others mix my stuff. I let it go and concentrate on the music. All the tracks I've done, apart from the demos, have been mixed on SSL's, actually all 9k's except a b-side I produced was mixed on a 4000.

Our relationship remains the same. Good friends who happen to work together every so often. My wife was in her wedding We rarely ever talk about work or the industry when we're together, and mostly listen to either jazz or Zeppelin. Kind of like having a super successful little sister. I consider myself incredibly lucky, it's been about 11 years that we've known each other.

[sedohr]

Rob has such a cool CV. I remember seeing a little column in Keyboard magazine called "In the mix" or something where Rob is giving general guidelines about successful mixing. Very interesting. I feel a new Q&A candidate coming up.

Kalli

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by robmix

Of the released tracks I've done with her, I've mixed about half of them and had a few mix engineers do the rest. With the demo and the first record it was a Neve 2254 into a DBX902. For the latest stuff that I mixed it's always been the Purple MC76 into a DBX 902.

What about reverbs, delays and all that ?

[Joemamma]

Originally Posted by robmix

Gear ? Well, the original demo was recorded in my home studio at the time. Probably either an Audio Technica 4033 or an AKG 414TLII into a Brent Averill 3405 mic pre followed by the TL Audio C1 comp to Sony PCM-800.

For the first record I recorded the vocal at Image as John mentioned above. Bruce Swedien's Sony C800G into a 1073 followed by an 1176 to 2" 24 track. As the record company deemed that vocal to be too good (I'm serious), we re-recorded the vocal at my house with the C800G into the 3405 followed by the DBX165a into the PCM-800 again. Everything was transfered to the SONY 3348 for the mix by Tommy Vicari.

Hey Rob,

Thanks for all the great info!

Why did you chose to track to the PCM-800? Does it have a certain sound you like?

This is a 8-track multitrack recorder, right? Were you syncing it to protools or other PCM-800's?

[robmix]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

What about reverbs, delays and all that ?

At my place it's always the TC M-5000 and Sony V-77 for reverb with the Roland SDE-3000's for delays. I'll also use a bit of Echo Farm and the digidelays. Usually the 5000 has a plate with a reverb time at about 1.4 - 1.8, and the Sony has a longer hall that I'll ride the level on for ballads. My delays are always timed, 1/16note, 1/8 note, and 1/4 note. Again riding the sends for added excitement.

I know Mokrin used some Echo Pro, and I think he pulled out the Publison too. I'm sure there was some 480L in there as well. Mick G. pulled out the 2016.

You don't need to gunk up her vocal with a bunch of effects. Just create some space and let her do the work

Originally Posted by Joemamma

Hey Rob,

Thanks for all the great info!

Why did you chose to track to the PCM-800? Does it have a certain sound you like?

This is a 8-track multitrack recorder, right? Were you syncing it to protools or other PCM-800's?

This was before the DAW revolution had really taken off. Most producers at the time were either using ADAT's or DA-88's/PCM-800's, and seeing as I wouldn't even record the Simpson's on a VHS tape I chose the PCM-800's. I would sync it to Studio Vision Pro (now I'm really dating myself) when I needed to. I think I switched to a full Pro Tools rig in about 2000.

[redrue]

Originally Posted by robmix

...I'll probably experiment some more next time we work together.
I'm still not convinced that we've really found the right chain for her...

Wow.


Those are the words of a true professional.


Yeah, it's good (and sold millions)... but I'll bet we can get it better!


Awesome.




..

[peeder]

Just wanted to say...I clicked through on robmix's site and listened to some of the work...

Uh, Wow.

OK, so I suck. But it's nice to hear someone here knows what they are doing!

[peeder]

Listening back more closely I have some comments and ideas.

For one thing, I think you're *the master* of background vocals. From arrangement to tracking to mix your technique there is what makes me really wowed. I'm not the expert, but I'd be surprised if there's anyone in the biz who wouldn't benefit from sending you their backgrounds work.

Speaking of which, I'm interested in what the backgrounds chain and technique was on the Brandy "Rock with you"...sounds like more than one chorus/flange, compressor, and some snappy fader moves. Awesome. Only thing I didn't like was the rapper sticking his fat ass over the modulation transition toward the end...one of the biggest and most rewarding hooks in the original. But there's awfully little to complain about in any of these tracks.

As for Ms. Aguilera she certainly is a vocal powerhouse... If I was writing lines for her to sing I would write them on a blues guitar through a cranked Marshall, and fit the lyrics to the best of the licks. That's really what she's doing with the voice from what I can see...wailing like a guitar god.

On "I will be" I hear the challenge with that voice...the sustains are difficult to take in places. If I had a vocalist like that I would consider multi-micing them with a ribbon...perhaps the Coles 4038 in this case...and see if I couldn't duck out the condenser on the big sustains like that to soften them up.

Part of your vocal arrangement skill is seen in the bridge on "Soar"...you are aiming for a gauzy, fantasy world in that section...a dreamy interlude to the gospel power choruses. And what works so well is your taking down the formants...having the consonants so low you only get a gauzy, swirling voice-wave...these touches aren't being ignored! Of course the teenage girls will still manage to make out the lyrics (I have no idea how they do that) and sing along.

These sound great on Adam S3A's and it's cool to "decode" music that has been encoded on them. Real tight low end...I guess even the ADAMs aren't enough for you in that department...and a somewhat narrowband presentation that still doesn't get cluttered and can be cranked. This will work well on any cheap system the teenagers have. (As if you need me to tell you this? I guess I'm just pointing it out for others.)

I was also really impressed with the bus compression on the Stripped intros...what was that? Supathick.

Anyway I'm pretty awed and it's cool to have examples to be motivated by. In addition to some great music...

[robmix]

Originally Posted by peeder

Listening back more closely I have some comments and ideas.

For one thing, I think you're *the master* of background vocals. From arrangement to tracking to mix your technique there is what makes me really wowed. I'm not the expert, but I'd be surprised if there's anyone in the biz who wouldn't benefit from sending you their backgrounds work.

Speaking of which, I'm interested in what the backgrounds chain and technique was on the Brandy "Rock with you"...sounds like more than one chorus/flange, compressor, and some snappy fader moves. Awesome. Only thing I didn't like was the rapper sticking his fat ass over the modulation transition toward the end...one of the biggest and most rewarding hooks in the original. But there's awfully little to complain about in any of these tracks.

As for Ms. Aguilera she certainly is a vocal powerhouse... If I was writing lines for her to sing I would write them on a blues guitar through a cranked Marshall, and fit the lyrics to the best of the licks. That's really what she's doing with the voice from what I can see...wailing like a guitar god.

On "I will be" I hear the challenge with that voice...the sustains are difficult to take in places. If I had a vocalist like that I would consider multi-micing them with a ribbon...perhaps the Coles 4038 in this case...and see if I couldn't duck out the condenser on the big sustains like that to soften them up.

Part of your vocal arrangement skill is seen in the bridge on "Soar"...you are aiming for a gauzy, fantasy world in that section...a dreamy interlude to the gospel power choruses. And what works so well is your taking down the formants...having the consonants so low you only get a gauzy, swirling voice-wave...these touches aren't being ignored! Of course the teenage girls will still manage to make out the lyrics (I have no idea how they do that) and sing along.

These sound great on Adam S3A's and it's cool to "decode" music that has been encoded on them. Real tight low end...I guess even the ADAMs aren't enough for you in that department...and a somewhat narrowband presentation that still doesn't get cluttered and can be cranked. This will work well on any cheap system the teenagers have. (As if you need me to tell you this? I guess I'm just pointing it out for others.)

I was also really impressed with the bus compression on the Stripped intros...what was that? Supathick.

Anyway I'm pretty awed and it's cool to have examples to be motivated by. In addition to some great music...

You're too kind. I had to go back and listen . . . . . I usually can't do it without a long break. I get too attached to every little detail, hear things I missed, etc. The background thing is something I learned from Rod Temperton, Jimmy Jam, Rene Moore, and of course the king of backgrounds MJ. Being an engineer, an asistant or whatever on those sessions was invaluable. And then being able to dissect them after the fact taught me so much. Plus being a horn player as a kid taught me to hear dense harmonies and close movement. A lot of the time my partner will come up with the usual 3rd and 5th parallel type stuff and then I hit the singer with the crazy shit. They usually think I'm nuts until they hear the finished product.

On "Rock with you" I came to that song at the end. Bruce was hired to mix Quincy's record, and I was brought along to engineer and program at night with Quincy and Rod while Bruce rested. Insane hours, assisting Bruce during the day, putting out fires with the ADAT's that the record was recorded on, and then staying up all night with Rod - that guy just does not sleep. We got no more than 4 hours of sleep a night, usually 2. I played keys on that and Tommy Vicari mixed it. A lot of that is just Brandy's natural tone and piles of vocals. One of my favorite tracks that I got to work on and one of my mix references in a new room.

I've tried the two mic thing on Christina and she's usually freaked out by anything but a 251 in front of her. Plus, she's so fast I rarely have time to mess around with complicated setups. She wants to get in there and go. We rarely have to write lines for her, especially ad libs. She's like an encyclopedia of licks - everything from Billy Holiday and Ella to Etta james and Whitney and Mariah. It's scarey, don't like an ad lib, she's got a 100 more.

On the Stripped intros I mixed those at the old Enterprise, probably on a 4000G, so it would have been a little bit of SSL stereo comp mixed hot to the ATR-102, 1/2" 30 IPS, +6/185, no noise reduction. And I was lucky enough to have Dave Pensado and Ron Fair come in to give hints and their blessings during the mix. Good coaching !!!!!!

Again, thanks for listening and the nice comments. Inspires me to go back to the studio tomorrow !!!!!!!

[peeder]

[J.D.]

Originally Posted by robmix

I'll probably experiment some more next time we work together. I'm still not convinced that we've really found the right chain for her. I was really impressed with the vocal sound on the Herbie Hancock duet. One of those moments where you say "damn, I wish I had done that !!!!" If the vocal was done at her house it would have been a new 251 into a Brent Neve followed by the 660. But I can't confirm that.

fyi...that vocal was recorded at Record Plant using one of the house 67's (#2 I believe) into a 1073 and 660. Recorded by Tal Herzberg. other than that i don't remember much else.

jd

[astronmr20]

I am probably about to step on the toes of some greatness in here,

But seriously, what happened on the new record? The big single from the new record actually makes me cringe (aint no other man). I realize there is FM radio processing to consider, but it sounds like a LOT of intentional dirt, a crapload of 3k... preamps sizzling and not in a good way. Like that girl is singing in my ear and it's not so pleasant to have 110 db hitting the membrane of my eardrum.

(Reading the posts, I just KNEW that she had an enormous SPL, listening to the timbre and delivery.)

Honestly, though, as good as her first record was, I feel she has been reduced to R&B mediocrity with what they are having her sing. It's the same pentatonic runs, over and over. Coupled with the extreme harshness I can't stand it.

I suppose the mixing process is to be considered of course, as there are plenty of cooks in the kitchen.

Perhaps it's the genre somewhat, and what has become of it.

Of course; my number 1 hits equeal zero.

(I seriously probably just offended someone personally here.... that's not my intention, but rather to continue discussion)

[robmix]

No offense taken. An artist can't please everyone. Even the number one selling record of all time ("Thriller") only sold to less than 1% of the world's population.


Someone once said a mix isn't finished until you've offended someone




.