Triggering Basics

[jdier]

On another thread Jay mentions stitching a trigger on a kick drum.

I am pretty new to recording and while I understand what triggers are and the basics of how they work, I do not understand how I could start using them.

I have an Aardvark card which has analog, MIDI and digital inputs... I run Sonar, so I have MIDI stuff and drum sounds and programs...

What else do I need? How inexpensively can I set up a basic trigger for kick?

[Jay Kahrs]

A basic trigger is pretty cheap, something like a Pintech is about $15 at Banjo Depot. It attaches to the drum head with adheasive and it leaves some gummy junk behind when it's pulled off. Also, when it's yanked off you can't really reuse the sticky stuff so I've invested in double sided tape which works decently enough. If I had to do it over again, or if you use triggers a lot it's worth spending the dough to get something like the Roland or DDrum triggers which attach to a lug.

Anywhoo, the trigger sends an electronic impluse which is nothing more then a click to whatever audio module you want. You can record the trigger data as an audio file and send it to a module later. Since the signal isn't quite line level I add about 15-20dB of gain and print it to tape. When it comes time to mix I patch the output of the tape machine into a module to trigger sounds.

[David R.]

I've heard the digital triggers sound a bit harsh, and the older ones sound warmer.

Jay?



(/chuckle)

[jdier]

OK Jay,

I go to a local music shop to just look at some triggers and the output is a 1/4" phone jack.

(Here comes the dumb question)

Where do I plug this in? and what level is it?

Could I just plug it in like it was a bass DI and it will record a signal?

[Jay Kahrs]

Kinda. Hook up an unbalanced 1/4" cable and you can either feed it to a DI or you can feed it right to a drum module or anything that will take a line level signal. The signal off most triggers is almost but not quite line level, adding about 15dB of gain seems to get me there most of the time. At least it's hot enough that I can print it somewhere between -10 and 0VU at +4, depending on how hard the drummer is hitting.

[jpaudio]

If you're tracking into a DAW, don't even bother with a cheap crappy trigger (sorry Jay!)... record the kick or whatever drum as best you can, then play around with something like Drumagog or Sound Replacer (depending on your platform). It'll be much more accurate, and odds are you'll find better sounds in a modern sample bank than you will in something like an old Alesis box or whatever. Digital performer also has a plugin that will analyze a track and generate MIDI notes for each hit, enabling you to trigger a MIDI sampler or sound module from an audio track. All of these methods completely destroy using those cheap-ass piezo stick-on thingies.

[Jay Kahrs]

Actaully JP, your half right and half wrong.

Most of the time you can get away with not putting a tigger on a kick drum and still be able to trigger a sample without a problem but for snare, toms, octobons etc. the only way to get a truely clean impulse is from a trigger. Mics pick up everything and if you try to trigger toms or snares from the mics you'll get all kinds of mis-triggers from other drums, the natural decay of the drums, cymbals and whatever else unless you gate the hell out of the mics which is a very dodgy situation. You've gated toms before...how often have you had gates not opening or staying open on different hits? Ever notice that on big tours bands who are triggering samples have DDrum tiggers attached to one lug of each drum?

Nobody's saying you have to use an old Alesis box like the D4 either. You can send the impulses to whatever you want that will take a trigger input, the V-drum brains aren't too bad for a more modern & realistic sounding option. I use samples to augment, never to replace so having an ultra realistic sound has never been ultra important to me. If I get a kick drum that's too muddy I'll look for a sample of something that's thin and has a lot of attack, might even be a cross-stick sample.

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Actaully JP, your half right and half wrong.

Most of the time you can get away with not putting a tigger on a kick drum and still be able to trigger a sample without a problem but for snare, toms, octobons etc. the only way to get a truely clean impulse is from a trigger. Mics pick up everything and if you try to trigger toms or snares from the mics you'll get all kinds of mis-triggers from other drums, the natural decay of the drums, cymbals and whatever else unless you gate the hell out of the mics which is a very dodgy situation. You've gated toms before...how often have you had gates not opening or staying open on different hits? Ever notice that on big tours bands who are triggering samples have DDrum tiggers attached to one lug of each drum?

Nobody's saying you have to use an old Alesis box like the D4 either. You can send the impulses to whatever you want that will take a trigger input, the V-drum brains aren't too bad for a more modern & realistic sounding option. I use samples to augment, never to replace so having an ultra realistic sound has never been ultra important to me. If I get a kick drum that's too muddy I'll look for a sample of something that's thin and has a lot of attack, might even be a cross-stick sample.

Jay, you make a great point, but Ddrum triggers are a far cry from the $15 piezo stick-ons you were talking about!

Honestly though, after playing with Drumagog, I don't know why anyone would go the trigger/MIDI route in the studio. C'mon, you can get your sounds isolated enough! if there's too much cymbal in your snare or toms then ya did somethin wrong! e. Remember, I did it the old-school way, with some pretty big old-school drummers, and it was still a major PITA compared to Drumagog or Soundreplacer.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by jpaudio
Jay, you make a great point, but Ddrum triggers are a far cry from the $15 piezo stick-ons you were talking about!

Not really. The guts are the same, a piezo that attaches to the head with a 1/4" output. What you're paying for with something nicer like a DDrum trigger or the new Roland is the nicer housing & lug assembly.

[blackcatdigi]

FYI:
Trigger Perfect makes a product that looks identical to the DDrum triggers for a lot less money.

Never used any of 'em, so I can't offer any opinion on how they measure up...