Mixing real strings in a pop/rock song?

[tzujan]

I have done this kind of thing quite a bit. One thing that I always try to do when double tracking strings is to get several extra takes of violins only, as it will emulate a "real" string ensemble of 20 to 40 players, which is in the following "typical ratios" small: 8,6,4,2,1 up to med: 12,10,8,6,4 (Violins 1, Violins 2, Violas, Celli, Basses - basses will often be omitted in pop/rock). Quadrupling a string quartet gives you 8 violins verses the 22 violins that you would expect in the above ratios and you will feel the imbalance when you are mixing. Also, the violins are typically carrying the weight of the arrangement. If you don't have this at this stage of the game your low mids will be a small issue, which it is some times necessary to cut in a pop track anyways.

I have liked the results of moving the players away from the stereo mics and each other for subsequent takes. This gets a little awkward, a lot of these players hate the idea of doubling let a lone having to get up and move between takes. I have also had success with extra stereo pairs at different distances and have the players sit wider than in a typical quartet. I personally like the traditional orchestral panning violins left celli right - it is so much easier if you get it right while recording. I know some pop/rock people like more of the Roger Norrington set up which is the basses center violins wide.

Reverb can be nice however there is something to be said for strings in a natural space even a small one. I like the small groups on the Tom Petty Wildflowers record - they are not huge, nor wet but sound intimate and clean (to my recollection). I think doublers, flangers and other effects would not sound real to my ear and too much will beg the question, why not use a synth? Not to mention double tracking has a similar effect built into the process.

[chymer]

Thanks for the help.....

I actually used a 3 peice, so 2 violins and cello......

I am multiplying bu about 5 for each section.

there are sections with just high octave violins which can be blended in.

It was recorded in a very small space but I listen carefully and remove any room frequency buildup that gives it away.

I used 2 AKG C12VR space for stereo and a ribbon mic on cello around the f-hole , and condensers above each violin as well, not too close.
its sounds good to me, but Im not that experienced at it.

Id love to post some examples if people wanna help out. Maybe Im pulling a terrible sound and I just dont know it yet:-)

Anyway, thanks for the help
chymer

[audiomichael]

Check out this guy as an option as well...Stevie Blackie. I used him for solo cello and it was very good. He plays everything and will multitrack up a string session.

As far as verb goes, more is good. Especially when it's not "real". Generally, I've found that on outboard verbs, the first large hall preset is pretty darn good (at least on the PCM91, TC R4000, Lex300, KSP8, etc)

[Velvetfreddy]

See what you think about this stuff-- myspace.com/jenniferniceley --Check out "Dark Eyes" or "Nightwalk". All strings arranged and performed by one guy. Quite a musician. Ribbon mic and condenser alternating tracks. No close mic'ing, all overhead.