Cement Floors in a treated room (small, square)???

[filthyrich]

OK, so I have recently built 6 bass traps using 4 inches (2X2") of 3.4lb Roxul. My room is close to square and is very close to 15 ft.
A large portion, but not all, of the room's ceiling vaults up a few feet. The rest is around 8 ft. It is made of softish material with little holes in it. Let's assume I will properly trap and build a few wall diffusers by doing the bent plywood thing.

Should I still go for the big live room sound by pulling up my carpet and going with cement floors?

I've read Ethan's FAQ and a ton of threads. Some make me think that if I can't get a big sounding room, than I should make it a dead room and try to use delay/reverb for big sounds.

Lil help?

-Rich

[lowfreq33]

You won't get a "big" room sound with those dimensions, but you can still get a good small room tone. You'll still need to use some verb, but dead just sounds dead. Maybe not cement though. Some of the newer laminate floors do a pretty good impression of wood, and they're pretty affordable.

[BJohnston]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

You won't get a "big" room sound with those dimensions, but you can still get a good small room tone. You'll still need to use some verb, but dead just sounds dead. Maybe not cement though. Some of the newer laminate floors do a pretty good impression of wood, and they're pretty affordable.

Agreed. I've got a room a little smaller than that for a drum room. I'd suggest doing as little absorbtion as possible. You'll probably neeed to get rid of some standing waves here or there, but don't kill it. I try to leave the room as bare as possible while tracking for that reason.
BTW, I used to own a place with cement floors. We coated them with a durable industrial paint. It had a great quality about it.

B

[Lee Knight]

Ditch the carpet. You want full bandwidth absorbtion and carpet only gets the highs. Concrete, wood, tile... they all sound the same and show very little difference when tested. Very little difference. So, use a hard floor, because it's impossible to get even absorbtion on a floor, then go full bandwith absorption like 4-6" of 703 on portions of the walls and ceiling. Bass trap as much as you can.

[filthyrich]

I plan on having 12 or more of the 4" bass traps on the walls and ceilings. I am going for the 6" version in the corners. I can only "trap" in 2 corners. 2 of them have P.A. speakers taking up the corners.

The amount of times can I use the word corners in a post without going overboard....what is....4?

thanks for all the good info so far.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by filthyrich

I can only "trap" in 2 corners. 2 of them have P.A. speakers taking up the corners.

Don't forget the corners where the walls meet the ceiling. Wall-floor corners are also great if you have any places where traps on the floor won't be underfoot.

--Ethan

[filthyrich]

Thanks Ethan.
I always enjoy reading your responses.

Ethan, would you say that I would benefit from cement floors (as opposed to carpet) based on what you've heard about my room?

More directly asked: Assuming that my ceilings are not solid reflective material, would there be any reason NOT to pull up my carpet?

Thanks again.

-Poor Rich

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by filthyrich

would you say that I would benefit from cement floors (as opposed to carpet) based on what you've heard about my room?

Is this for mixing only, or for recording too? For mixing you could go either either way, but if you plan to record acoustic guitars or violins etc a reflective floor in that part of the room can add a nice sense of ambience.

--Ethan

[filthyrich]

Most of what I record in there is drums. I also record guitars in there. Most of what I have recorded in the past is heavy rock and punk; so the guitars are loud and distorted usually. I hope to expand genres as my skills and equipment increase.

My very loud rock band also practices in this room.

Thanks again,
Rich

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by filthyrich

Most of what I record in there is drums. I also record guitars in there.

My best suggestion is to try placing a bunch of plywood sheets or whatever over the carpet as a test to and see if you like it better than carpet.

--Ethan

[filthyrich]

Great. No easy answer. I figured as much.

Hey, I was also wondering about that secret eq and compression setting that is going to make my mixes sound like gold.

Thanks again.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by filthyrich

Great. No easy answer. I figured as much.

But the answer is not difficult either. You simply try it both ways and decide which you prefer.

Hey, I was also wondering about that secret eq and compression setting that is going to make my mixes sound like gold.

I have that but it's very expensive. Prices start at $100k - PM for details.

--Ethan

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Don't forget the corners where the walls meet the ceiling. Wall-floor corners are also great if you have any places where traps on the floor won't be underfoot.

--Ethan

Actually in a live room I like to keep the bass traps in the floor wall corners area if for no other reason you can move them around and use them for different things.

Glenn

[filthyrich]

First. The actual dimensions are 15' 7" by 14' 6". It might as well be square. So, Ive decided that I'm going to pull up the carpet and padding and take my chances. I guess I can always use area rugs to calm the highs.

I've recently built 6 (4") traps that are 4 ft by 16". I've got 2 more to build. In the end, it's the same coverage as 6 4ft X 2ft traps. I got the wrong rock wool package. I got 16 pieces of 4ft X16" instead of 12 pieces of 4ft X 2ft. Next time I'll get the 24".

If I'm practicing in the room also; (heavy punk rock/metal) is it possible that I may create feedback hell by lifting the carpet?

We haven't practiced since I built the traps. I'm curious to see what effect it has on the bass in the room.

Thanks.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by filthyrich

I've recently built 6 (4") traps that are 4 ft by 16". I've got 2 more to build. In the end, it's the same coverage as 6 4ft X 2ft traps. I got the wrong rock wool package. I got 16 pieces of 4ft X16" instead of 12 pieces of 4ft X 2ft. Next time I'll get the 24".

If I'm practicing in the room also; (heavy punk rock/metal) is it possible that I may create feedback hell by lifting the carpet?

We haven't practiced since I built the traps. I'm curious to see what effect it has on the bass in the room.

Thanks.

When straddling corners you really want the 24". Not that the 16" will not work but not as well. Hate to tell you that.

I would not worry about the feedback from hell.

Glenn

[filthyrich]

For the corners, I'm likely going to stack triangles (from a bundle of 4x2) from floor to ceiling and build a nice little wood/muslin frame that straddles the corners and covers it all. I can do that for 3 out of 4 corners. The 4th one would be nearly impossible to do that for. I'll find a solution for that one.