room mics for drums if the room sounds bad?

[mattoxxx]

I'm gona be recording in a pretty dead bad sounding room, my buddy seems to think we should use a pair of room mics on the drums and I disagree because the room sounds bad and the room mics aren't gona make the drums sound better. He thinks the room mics will make them sound more natural. I've recorded drums in this room before and never ended up using the room mic in the mix. I think we'd be better of closing micing and then adding just a bit of reverb in the mix. What is your guy's thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Matt

[stealthbalance]

something i do alot is if there is a bathroom or lounge of even a very tiny iso closet that is close by or across a hall or whatever i'll throw in 2 mics and use that as the ambience. just beat the hell out of them with eq & compression. also, sometimes i'll use hard surfaced gobos and build a tunnel and throw in a couple of mics at the end.whatever you do put up something at least 10 feet from the drums even if its aweful. point at the walls away from the drums , point 1 inch away from the hard floor , but offer something else other than just really close mics. try and find even a little corner somewhere in the studio that has a hard surface and get right in there and mike that. and please dont feel obligated to compress the living hell out of the ambience mics. all this does is destroy alll the early reflections and also make cybal balancing verses ambience volume a complete nightmare. quite often ill use minimal compresion if any on the amb , but ill send that to room reverbs and work with it that way. just always sending to a verb off of a close drum mic can sound so wrong. break out some of the forgotten verb boxes like pcm 60 , as that stuff can be genius when going for a nice room sound. hope this helps. MHO
s

[KBOY]

In my own opinion I say what the hell. It's 1 maybe 2 more mics and micpres. You've already spent more time thinking about it then It would take to do the recording. I would just do room mics. If anything to show him just how bad the room sounds so maybe he will do something about it. Maybe, just maybe they will be usable, if anything ran through some sort of distortion pedal and used only in the breakdown. Just make sure at mix time if they aint working don't feel like you HAVE to use em.

Peace
KBOY

[jbuntz]

I agree with stealthbalance. I've actually deadened shitty walls with auralex max walls while throwing up mics in another room that made it sound very live. It can get muddy if ceilings are low or if rooms suck in general. Kitchens and bathrooms are both often usably live.

[Tim L]

As an alternative, you can add the "room" later. Close mic the kit during the original tracking session then choose a room you like and set up a speaker (or two) and a mic (or two ) in that room. Send a submix of the kit to the speaker(s) and track the ambience in the room. You can have a lot of fun with mic placement and compression on this (an IBP is your friend!) and it can really yield some great results. HTH

[juniorhifikit]

All of the above can work but I have to ask, why cripple the recording from the start? Why record in a room that you KNOW is going to suck? Do you really have no other options?

On the other hand, sometimes a liability can be your greatest asset and become the signature sound of a record.

There, I've just posted two out of phase statements that should cancel each other out when combined. Ignore me completely

[dhughes]

This is something I've dealt with a bit - as my band's rehersal space is an acoustic nightmare. We've tried it close mic'd and used overheads - and I take the overheads everytime.

I've actually found that good overhead microphones actually make the mix sound worse than a pair of $200 condensers. The idea here is that the nice overheads picked up a lot more of the room.

If you want to check out a recording we did about month ago (before I spent 10 K on new gear) right click this link and save the file to your computer:

http://www.harbinger-trio.net/Music/DawnTreader.mp3

It's no gem by any stretch of the imagination, but it gives you an idea what 2 crappy condensers (AKG C2000) can sound like in a terrible room. The only other mics on the drums are a SM57 on the snare and an Audix D6 in the kick. Everything was recorded live with the guitar amp and bass amp in the same room about 8 feet away from the kit.

If you want to know more about the other crappy equipment used to record the song let me know and I'll give the run down.

Hope it is helpful....

[Jay Kahrs]

I might try an onmi with little or no compression close to the kit, maybe over the drummer head, behind his back or off the side of the floor tom. Failing that, I'd also try an SM57 low to the ground and about as far from the kit as you can get it and mangle it with EQ and compression to make it trashy.

[Jules]

Close mic's are your friend, room mic in sh!t rooms need MAJOR surgery to become even SLIGHTLY useable IMHO.

For me, distance is key, a mic inside an overturned bucket in a far coner can be better than one out in the room...

A mic just outside the drum booth door, equed & compressed can ALSO sound better than a mic inside the room.

My tip is to scheme on how to falcely generate 'distance' somehow, point mic's AWAY from the drums in far corners....

In one large room I used to use in London, I disliked the sound, so I tossed eiderdowns (duvets) over the track lighting rails to try to cut down on the sound bouncing around... it worked...

.....my 2 euro cents

[juniorhifikit]

Originally posted by Jules
Close mic's are your friend, room mic in sh!t rooms need MAJOR surgery to become even SLIGHTLY useable IMHO.

For me, distance is key, a mic inside an overturned bucket in a far coner can be better than one out in the room...

A mic just outside the drum booth door, equed & compressed can ALSO sound better than a mic inside the room.

My tip is to scheme on how to falcely generate 'distance' somehow, point mic's AWAY from the drums in far corners....

In one large room I used to use in London, I disliked the sound, so I tossed eiderdowns (duvets) over the track lighting rails to try to cut down on the sound bouncing around... it worked...

.....my 2 euro cents

I always wondered what an eiderdown was!

About 15 years ago (before DAW) I worked on a record with Mr. Albini who used digital delays to move the room mics in a small room further away. It kind of worked. Distance, phase and combfilters play a big role in room sound - for better or worse. YMMV