What is the role of a producer...in reality

[bloodsweatfire]

Hello, first post.

Can someone enlighten me on the true role of a producer?
Does the word producer mean the same thing these days?
I have heard so many people calling themselves a 'producer' but I don't know what they actually mean. What do they do?

What does someone like a Ted Templeton, Tom Dowd, Rick Rubin, Mutt Lang etc. actually do?

My apologies if this is an ignorant question.

Blood

[mixer]

a question with a thousand answers..but to me the producer is the person in charge of the entire recording process..and even though he doesn't do every job he is responsible for it..it's where the buck stops....that's why it is so important to find the right producer for the project ..myself i enjoy more of a co-production relationship with an artist...that only works when you are both operating on the same level. of course this is just my answer .

[zimv20]

one of the many things, imo, is the producer keeps everyone (especially the band) on message w/ the creative vision

[smoothmoniker]

I think a great analogy might be the role of a General Contractor on a construction job. The artist and the A&R guy (if they're doing their job) are the architects, laying out the creative goal. It's the producer's job to know every step between that initial creative vision, and the final master.

They know how to budget, schedule, who to bring in, what rooms to use, what players to use, how long things take, and in what order they should be done.

These days, there are alot of other roles that get blended in. For an indie artist, the producer may be taking a much more active roll in choosing songs, pre-producing the material, etc. If it's a small project, they may also be engineering, even playing on the album. I like to keep all of those things disctinct, however, so that billing is clearer. Even if I'm doing all of those roles, I don't just call them all "Production".

-sm

[bloodsweatfire]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. I am hoping more people pipe up about this. 85 views in 2 hours and only 3 responses. Maybe there are as many people as curious as me? Great info.

Blood

[natpub]

I think the couple answers done already pretty much covered things. The only thing I would add is that they are a form of Quality Assurance. They are (hopefully) experts in many fields, and indeed oversee an entire project and assure it's quality is consistent with that of the common professional standards that a label would expect.

Some producers today have become like talent scouts and development, but I think that is because the major labels stopped doing that. Lables won't put bucks into scouting and developing talent much these days. Often Indie labels and/or producers will bring in compelete albums, or several, or artists that already have substantial following and sales, which is about all the major labels seem to care about.

Beyond that, Producers may, as noted, help choose which songs from the artists repertoire seem most likely to be cohesive with the overall disc, and, of couse be most successful (either artistically, or--more often--comercially).

Producers sometimes have the role of being like a music director, especially with very rough street acts who may lack musical training, and so be unaware of the high standards needed for things like tuning, pitch, phrasing, and cutoffs. Listen to some of the old Beatles material before George Martin, then listen to the actual product :-) The songs are basically the same, but they will give you a perfect idea of what that kind of producer does. All that selecting, developing, rehersal, tightening, arranging help, etc, often consumes most of pre-production.

Once in the studio, the producer insures that the sonic goal is being achieved, consulting with the engineer on what kinds of mics, pre's effects, etc., are used. As said before, the producer is often themselves an experienced engineer and mixer, and will sometimes double-duty. But in the pure sense, that would be a different job title.

The producer may also bring in extra talent and arrangers to add things the artist may not have thought of. Now, a good producer, IMO, is working to realize the artist's vision, and not their own, but there is naturally some blend. The producer does have influence, their own certain touch--this is why you can listen to discs produced by the same person, with totally different artists, and still detect something in common, though it can be hard to describe. The producer will often bounce ideas to the artist, to see what they think of adding this or that. They may say, "hey, what about we add some strings here." If the artist says sure, then producer needs to hire someone to write, arrange, and play those strings--be they electronic or a live orchestra or ensemble.

Sometimes the producer will write or arrange these parts him or herself. Again reference George Martin, and all the fantastic things he did with the Beatles. While I know the Beatles were very creative themselves, a very large portion of what you hear on their albums (especially the older ones) was his ideas, which is why I think he is so highly regarded.

Along with all this, the producer is keeping watch on the money, time, and energy spent. They have to insure everyone actually gets done on time and in budget. A daunting task! The recording industry invented the phrase "time is money" and I bet it was a producer who said it, lol.

The producer then has to follow the end recording through the mixing phase, and again either mix it themselves or work closely with the mixer to make sure the product remains coherent. Of course, there are mixers who decline to allow the producer much oversite on that, but those things get worked out, usually depending on the relative fame and resume of the respective person. Egos do collide sometimes I notice :-)

Finally to the mastering house, to make sure that all gets done in a tidy way, and suitable to the demands of the lable. All along the producer is interfacing with the label, often explaining time and/or cost overruns.

Amist all this, the producer is trying to cool the various conflicts and ego wars that can arise between artists and corporations. or whatever. Read the excellent story of "Mixerman and Bitchslap" on the Recpit forums here:



http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=3581



A very long read, but well worth it!!

Finally, the producer may go on to help oversee, along with the artists, selection of packaging, marketing, and advertising materials, as well as the product promotion. Because producers most often work on a combination of cash fee and percentage of gross sales (front loaded), the success of the project financially can be very dear to them, so such extreme efforts are in their best interest.

One might liken a producer in the record industry to a weird combination of the Director and the producer(s) of a movie, but combined.

Anyway, that's my stab at it. Yikes, looking back at this I see I ran on too long, sorry, I kinda spaced out.

Peace,

KT

[Bob Olhsson]

Tony Clarke, the Moody Blues' producer gave me the most succinct definition I've ever heard. He told me "The producer is the one who decides when it's done!"

I've really missed working with producers. The good ones are catalysts like a great coach or director. Performers and engineers will find themselves performing far beyond anything they previously believed they could do.

[bjornson]

Huh and i always thought they were just the tired lookin' guys sitting in the back reading the paper!

[mwagener]

great post natpub, it says it all

[bloodsweatfire]

Thanks so much everyone!

Natpub that really helped...and added some more questions! Like, typically how much does the producer make? Seems like a lot of work to do it all on chance, in hopes that the record sells.
How does the producer get paid? Upfront?


On a side note:
Bob Ohlsson, you rock.....and roll! I feel honored to share the forum with you! My own style of engineering is obviously influenced by you and I work hard to make some of my digital gear sound like yesteryear gear. Not an easy task!
Working with people like Bob Babbitt, Joe Hunter, Smokey Robinson,, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Eddie Willis, Johnny Griffith, Jamerson, Martha Reeves. Shit. The list goes on and on.

Just nice to see you here and feel your presence.

Blood

[natpub]

typically how much does the producer make? Seems like a lot of work to do it all on chance, in hopes that the record sells.

It sure does seem like a lot of work on spec!!

I guess them's the risk of the music biz :-)

There have been lots of posts on this question of pay. Bottom line is, it pays whatever the seller is charging and the buyer is willing to pay. I know you asked "typically," but in the past 10 years, especially since the dawn of the project studio and things like rap and sampling, the demand for the old style producer is a little less, so they are working cheaper, and doing more creative diversification, such as the whole scouting and development thing.

Anyway, the short answer is, anywhere from $5k to $50k upfront cash, then possibly a per diem, travel expenses, etc., then anywhere from 2-4% points of the gross. This has been my experience, and a lot of what I see posted, but lately more and more are doing flat fee work for like $5-10k for a project, often including engineering, mixing, and doing it all on their own PTHD rig at their own studio.

Hope that helps,

KT

[nd33]

For hip hop an r&b often the producer conceives and plays/programs the whole song, with the vocal artist laying their stuff down on top of the complete instrumental. You can't really call yourself a hip hop producer and not be able to make "beats".

Peace!

[BrianK]

Personally, I like producers that offer MANY ideas - how to arrange the song, instruments to choose, ways to play, motivations, new approaches, old approaches, etc...

But over time, I learned this:

The Producer is the one who gets a "Producer" credit on the issued record.

(Doesn't matter if someone else spent YEARS getting the record together! ...or if the Producer did nothing on the record.)

[ajcamlet]

On a Jazz session, they get the coffee and sandwiches.

[ajcamlet]

On a more serious and realistic note, this is certainly true:

Originally posted by BrianK
The Producer is the one who gets a "Producer" credit on the issued record.

(Doesn't matter if someone else spent YEARS getting the record together! ...or if the Producer did nothing on the record.)

I just finsihed engineering an EP for rising female singer songwriter. The producer for the session was around during the recording process to facilitate beer consumption and to continuously roll fatties.

He was not around for the mix process. I mixed everything and made some pretty heavy judgment calls - stongly influencing the sound of the record.

Just got my copy back - I shared a "recorded by & mixed by" credit with the producer.

Great gig if you can get it!