What stacks better Tube pre clean mic? Tube mic clean pre?

[jazztone]

Hi folks,

I am still trying to decide on my front end upgrade. I am using a LA 610 to nuemann U87 for my wife ( sounds like Chaka Khan with a more airy smokey edge). All the mics that push 10K through the ceiling push her air componet too much. I get good but not great vocals from the nuemann on her. On the rappers and male vocals it sounds great. But on my wife it doesn't have her chest tone and makes her air a little too pronounced. Also A BIG PROBLEM is stacking R&B style vocals with the LA-610. Too much low mid build up no matter what I do. If I use it for lead only (LA-610), it can turn in some great vocals. So I am thinking maybe get the color in the mic but a better fit for her voice and use a clean pre to stack! I was thinking maybe a alpha channel and a fat mic that doesn't do 10 db boost in the upper range. Please help me with this decision. I used to use a grace which has a great tone for us, but doesn't take EQ well. So it was only good if the flat tone was just right. Also the LA- 610 comp/LIM works excellent for vocal tracking so I would need a replacement for that.


Please Give me some ideas on mics (maybe ribbon or tube) and a comp to replace the LA 2 ish in the UA. Lastly I would probably want stero input so I can take Keyz through it. HELP.



Jazztone

[Koed]

I think the 610 might be a little too coloured for your application in combination with the U87. It's a wonderful chain though, but obviously not for you.
Don't think it's a tube/clean vs clean/tube problem but rather your specific amp/microphone combination.
You might want to look at some 251,47 or C12 inspired microphones like those from Peluso, Wunder or Pearlman and combine them with a Pacifica, Avalon 2022, Buzz MA2.2 or John Hardy amp.
The best thing you can do is take your wife with you and try out every possible chain you can get access to.
Finding that illusive perfect vocal chain for that one particular voice you know inside and out can take a lifetime.

[Fruition2k]

This is is exactly what makes the U67 so perfect for up close female vocals, as there
is a wonderful mid presence, slight dip around the 7k point or so, and employs a complex low end roll off in a gradual way.

The vocal room also comes into play the better mics and pres in use, you really hear the condition of your recording space i.e. lack of treatment..

[jazztone]

Thanks folks. I do understand that a certain chain is going to shine on some vocals more than others. I once heard my wife on a Sony 800G into Requisite Pre, and Comp. The sound was fantastic. I can't spend that kind of coin right now. I also heard her sound good on a Groove Tubes System 6 into a Neve. I am thinking a U47 type mic into a clean channel strip. What do you folks think?


Jazztone

[rcm]

Tube pre & Clean are not opposites. Some tube pres are very clean, some solid state pres are very colored.

[Koed]

Originally Posted by rcm

Tube pre & Clean are not opposites. Some tube pres are very clean, some solid state pres are very colored.

The color is in the transformers :)

Originally Posted by jazztone

I am thinking a U47 type mic into a clean channel strip. What do you folks think?
Jazztone

Might work, my girl has a loud alto voice and her voice sounds best through a 47 type microphone and a fairly clean amp with smooth transformers.

[dbbubba]

I have recorded my wife for nearly twenty five years and I have tried almost every combination possible. The onlu constant has been that I have used an 1176 of some type in almsot all recordings. They were either a blue stripe or an E or maybe an F series here and there.

I was making a compilation of her recorded stuff recently and my favoriye combinatiion was Soundelux U95 into a Sphere M1200 pre (discreet Class B) and hitting an 1176.

Whie comparing her voice to you wife's voice blindly seems silly I can only say that my wife is a real vocalist (degreed from a REAL music school, UNT) and has a lot of range in her vocal abilities. We used the U95 on a series of Big Band standards we recorded, so you can imagine the vocal style. Some quiet, some belting, lot's of emotion. The U95 souded VERY musical.

So, I'd say... GOOD tube mic with a discreet mic pre.
The John Hardy is good and I have used them with a U87 many times.
It is a VERY center of the road sound.

As far as stacking goes.
I have tried a lot of combinations there , too.
I used to use a U87 through a Demeter tube pre (I forget the model number.. an early one) and to 2" (JH24 running 499 at +9) with good results.
I would record the vocals flat and EQ as needed in the submix back to two tracks.
I would try to make the sub-mixed vocal sound be about what I wanted w/o any additional processing required.

I'd try the John Hardy route because his mic pre is a great design based on the classic Jensen 990 mic pre. The Jensen 990 is pretty well in the same family as the Sphere, Electrodybe, QuadEight discreet stuff. Pretty much classic stuff!

I guess that the UA2610 is too "thick?"

Maybe the 210 and a mic like an AKG (even a 414 would be bad for BG stacking.)
Something different from the thicker/warmer u95 / u47 tube sound.

Have fun either way!