mono overhead with stereo room mics? (drums)

[numrologst]

hey danny

I do it all the time... I use an r84 as an overhead... I ten to like it pretty close to the kit, right over top of the snare. I tend to place the mic 2-3 feet over the top of the drummers head.

Then I use a pair of c451b's for the room mics...

In addition I usually put a 414 in my other tracking room where my piano's are...

For me, the mono overhead provides some serious clarity. In this configuration the toms sound absolutely huge, i can't even describe it.

The room mics for me provide a bit bigger, a little more ambient sound, but it still sounds focused because I don't place the room mics too far from the kit... Sometimes 3-4 feet from the front of it... Sometimes 10-12 feet, depending on what I need.

The really ambient sound comes from the mic in the other room. In the other room, it's picking up all ambience, bouncing off the walls etc..

Then I still put a 421 on the snare, d6 on the kick, and sometimes a 421 on the tom...


The sounds are huge... And i have never run into phase issues.

One of my favorite drum sounds i ever got was an r84 as oh, and an r84 on kick... Big big big sound

[espen askelad]

Love doing this. Ribbon overtop, two omnis out in the room, usually low to the ground. It's just like you said, a focused image of this kit and then a feeling of width surrounding it. Putting another omni behind/over the drummer's head and crushing it with compression is a cool flavor to blend in.

[turk sanchez]

Originally Posted by numrologst

hey danny

I do it all the time... I use an r84 as an overhead... I ten to like it pretty close to the kit, right over top of the snare. I tend to place the mic 2-3 feet over the top of the drummers head.

Then I use a pair of c451b's for the room mics...

In addition I usually put a 414 in my other tracking room where my piano's are...

For me, the mono overhead provides some serious clarity. In this configuration the toms sound absolutely huge, i can't even describe it.

The room mics for me provide a bit bigger, a little more ambient sound, but it still sounds focused because I don't place the room mics too far from the kit... Sometimes 3-4 feet from the front of it... Sometimes 10-12 feet, depending on what I need.

The really ambient sound comes from the mic in the other room. In the other room, it's picking up all ambience, bouncing off the walls etc..

Then I still put a 421 on the snare, d6 on the kick, and sometimes a 421 on the tom...


The sounds are huge... And i have never run into phase issues.

One of my favorite drum sounds i ever got was an r84 as oh, and an r84 on kick... Big big big sound

Nice man. Glad to hear it's working for you. I am doing a lot of mixing now but next time I track drums I am going to try this. I should try that 421 on the snare some time too...never have.

I can see how 451's might be cool being brighter mics with the darker ribbon overhead. The rooms might sit in their own place in the mix.

Thanks for the response...cool ideas.

espen askelad...glad to hear it is working for you too...and yes I most likley will stay low to the ground as well w/my rooms.

Has anybody tried a 121 or Manley card. ref. mic as mono overhead?

[worm]

theres a couple of nice posts in this thread:

single coles 4038 on kit

thumbsup

[warhead]

I've used an R84 as a single kit mic quite often also, and highly recommend it in that position for what you're trying to do. Usually the two condensors are ORTF above the kit and the R84 is EQ'd / pumped up the center, but I have tracked with a pair of ATM450 low to the ground facing into the kit from maybe 8' out with huge results as well. You can get a very wide sound that way.

War

[Tim Abraham]

You might want to try throwing up 3 overheads--a typical spaced pair of 67's/87's/451's/whatever with a 121/R84/4038 up the middle, pointing down at the snare. I use this setup all the time (in addition to a mono ribbon room up pretty close, and a stereo spaced room pair further back). This way when I get to the mix I've got lots of options.

I often end up using all 3 overheads--the spaced condensers give me width with presence, and the center (darker) ribbon is usually a great way to bring out the snare in a totally different way than pushing up the snare's close mic(s). And if I want a more "centered" kit sound I can just chuck the spaced overheads.

[dtucker]

Sounds good and all, but wouldn't the ceiling height play a major factor in terms of using a ribbon as the mono overhead? I would think that anyone using ribbons as overheads would have at least 10 ft. of ceiling height. Otherwise you end dealing with a reflection from the ceiling that could cause problems in the end.

Yes?

[Tim Abraham]

Originally Posted by dtucker

Sounds good and all, but wouldn't the ceiling height play a major factor in terms of using a ribbon as the mono overhead? I would think that anyone using ribbons as overheads would have at least 10 ft. of ceiling height. Otherwise you end dealing with a reflection from the ceiling that could cause problems in the end.

Yes?

Yes

[numrologst]

Originally Posted by Tim Abraham

Yes

I have 10 feet of ceiling height... But Still i think this sound is pulled off by a really close placement

[bobwarren]

Originally Posted by numrologst

hey danny

Then I use a pair of c451b's for the room mics...

Those mics are angels! I love them.

[turk sanchez]

Hey guys...the ceilings are both studios I use are more than 10 feet...15ish at one and a little higher at the other so no problem with the fig 8.

Tim Abraham...I have done that exact setup before...you are right that it is a smart thing to have options but all the sessions I do are on a budget so time is money...and I like you tend to wind up using all the mics in the mix when they are there just because...the funny thing is some of my best sounds have been with the Glyn Johns method or one coles over shoulder and a kick mic...just when I was in a hurry laying down ideas. I am allways hear some "smearing" no matter how in phase the mics are when you layer different images on top of another...like stereo OH, rooms, mono room FOK etc, MS and so on...especially after it gets slammed at mastering the cymbals can get ugly fast. This is what I am trying to avoid. I think the mono oh being in the middle of the kit will get more drums than cymbals and provide a powerfull sound of the whole kit...and the rooms being farther back so both mics should be pretty smooth on the cymbals (I hope).