Phase issues in gtr amp recording: multi-miking vs. overdubbing...

Navigator · 11th April 2007

I was reading through the thread on pictures of amp miking setups today, and it was quite useful. But there were some issues of phase that were touched on that I'd like to get clarified if possible. We're all acquainted with the issues of phase when miking an amp with two or more mics, but what about phase issues when overdubbing? That is, when I put an SM57 and a Royer on a single cab I have to work around the phase issues which are pretty obvious as I move the mics around. I understand why phase emerges as an issue here since there's a single source that is being picked up by two different transducers. Why isn't phase an issue in the same way when combining singly-mic'd tracks of the same part that are recorded separately?

Or did I just answer my own question? Is phase not an issue when separately recorded but otherwise identical tracks are combined? Can someone explain this in terms of the technicalities involved?

Kiwiburger · 11th April 2007

Do you mean double or tripled tracked parts that you overdub by playing seperately? It is physically impossible to play the parts exactly the same - that's why there are enough differences between the waveform for phasing to cease to be an issue.

Led · 11th April 2007

Yeah, what Burger said, the tiny differences in timing are enought o eliminate phase problems, whereas multiple mics are hearing the exact same signal, no timing differences at all. Although I work with a session singer who occasionally doubles herself so well that the vocal phases on the odd word here and there, in which case we have to redo it. Strange but true.

Navigator · 11th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Do you mean double or tripled tracked parts that you overdub by playing seperately? It is physically impossible to play the parts exactly the same - that's why there are enough differences between the waveform for phasing to cease to be an issue.

Yep. That's what I meant. Thanks for the clarification guys. I'm leaning towards getting an IBP, but this makes me think a lot more about just layering tracks as well.

Led · 11th April 2007

The two methods - layering and multi mics - are pretty different and sound very different. An IBP is a pretty handy thing if you don't want to have to go out to the room with iso headphones and move mics around. Or if you don't have to commit both mics to one track you can record them to seperate tracks and align them after.

woomanmoomin · 11th April 2007

Recording to separate tracks whenever possible also means you can play around with levels and stuff more later on. Obvious but good.

Forkleg · 11th April 2007

I personally like to overdub tracks as well...the wave lengths are the same if you multi mic something...if they are good enough and on time...it'll sound way fuller to do a few takes of the same passage...say on a catch chorus

11th April 2007	#1
Navigator Gear nut Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 100 Thread Starter	Phase issues in gtr amp recording: multi-miking vs. overdubbing... I was reading through the thread on pictures of amp miking setups today, and it was quite useful. But there were some issues of phase that were touched on that I'd like to get clarified if possible. We're all acquainted with the issues of phase when miking an amp with two or more mics, but what about phase issues when overdubbing? That is, when I put an SM57 and a Royer on a single cab I have to work around the phase issues which are pretty obvious as I move the mics around. I understand why phase emerges as an issue here since there's a single source that is being picked up by two different transducers. Why isn't phase an issue in the same way when combining singly-mic'd tracks of the same part that are recorded separately? Or did I just answer my own question? Is phase not an issue when separately recorded but otherwise identical tracks are combined? Can someone explain this in terms of the technicalities involved?

11th April 2007	#2
Kiwiburger Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,075	Do you mean double or tripled tracked parts that you overdub by playing seperately? It is physically impossible to play the parts exactly the same - that's why there are enough differences between the waveform for phasing to cease to be an issue. __________________ My carbon footprint is bigger than yours.

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11th April 2007	#3
Led Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,728	Yeah, what Burger said, the tiny differences in timing are enought o eliminate phase problems, whereas multiple mics are hearing the exact same signal, no timing differences at all. Although I work with a session singer who occasionally doubles herself so well that the vocal phases on the odd word here and there, in which case we have to redo it. Strange but true.

11th April 2007	#6
woomanmoomin Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2007 Location: London, England Posts: 1,021	Recording to separate tracks whenever possible also means you can play around with levels and stuff more later on. Obvious but good.

11th April 2007	#7
Forkleg Gear Head Joined: Mar 2007 Location: Mia Posts: 68	I personally like to overdub tracks as well...the wave lengths are the same if you multi mic something...if they are good enough and on time...it'll sound way fuller to do a few takes of the same passage...say on a catch chorus