Is anyone making money from SNOCAP yet?

[Rufuss Sewell]

My band Estrum is currently the #3 unsigned progressive band in Texas according to the MySpace top artists list. We get about 1000 plays per day and get a lot of great feedback. But our Snocap sales are pretty much dismal. We sell way more CD's when we play to 50 kids then when we announce new music to our 13,000 friends on MySpace.

Do you guys find that people are more comfortable with iTunes and they just aren't comfortable with Snocap yet?

Or are you feeling like people still just want CD's and don't really care to download songs at all.

Or maybe you are doing well with Snocap?!?

What have your experiences been so far?

Maybe we just aren't presenting our store very well.

This is a link to my band's page if you want to check it out and give me some suggestions:

<a href="http://www.myspace.com/estrum"><img border="2"src="http://usera.imagecave.com/rufuss/EstrumMyspace/Estrum_Banner_Red.jpg"></a>

[daveseviltwin]

Same issue here.

[soundtrack2life]

Same here as well.

[Tibbon]

I do support local music and if I see a band I like, I'll buy their CD (well I'm a photographer for many bands, so often they'll give me their CD but that's another issue). In fact the only local/indie band (not so local now I guess) that I bought their CD on iTunes was the Dresden Dolls. I bought their 2nd cd as a pre-order from their website with a ticket to the opening night for that CD at the Orphium in Boston.

Asides from them, I've bought local bands CD's at the shows, or whenever I go to Newbury comics. Not online.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Hey, thanks for your input Tibbon. To be honest though, the members of Gearslutz are not our target market so I'm not too concerned about the buying habits of us members. Especially jaded industry folk who get most of their CD's for free. I used to be a sales rep for a large indi distributor and got any CD I wanted for free for years so I definitely fit into that camp. I'm more interested in the buying habits of the hordes of teens that frequent our page.

Still trying to get my head around the best way to actually sell music right now... but then again I guess that's everyone's big question.

[wpieschel]

I have mixed feelings about friends on myspace. Because of the recent articles (www.billboard.biz, etc.) about A&R people checking out MySpace pages for the number of friends a band has, I think that a lot of musicians are trying to befriend anybody to make their stats look better. It's easy to click a button and make a friend, but do people really, really listen to the tracks and make a connection?

At the live shows to 50 kids, you make a much stronger connection to the your audience than a web blast, so I think it's natural that you'll have better sales. That is, the stronger your musical connection to your audience, usually your monetary compensation will be better as well. This applies to iTunes and MySpace and any other music store. (e.g. Virgin Records, Newbury Comics, your merch table.)

I think the imagery and design of your site is good. I don't think that there is anything wrong with the presentation, and it's better than most.

My only suggestion is the obvious: more live shows.

[Tibbon]

I guess it comes down to this:

Find whatever is working, and do more of it. If you are a band that's selling like hotcakes online, but not much at shows... then keep pushing the online. If you aren't able to get crap done online but sell a ton at your shows, then maybe you are hitting a slightly different audience (not as online) than you think you are and maybe you should really make sure that your CD Table/booth is really setup nice (accept credit cards if possible, make sure it's well staffed, well lit, well layed out, etc..)

Also it's basically a good idea to offer your music in as many places as possible, as long as each doesn't cost too much for you to get it into. This is even more true these days with digital sales, since we don't have to worry about returned inventory, etc... Put it on every sales site you can get onto as long as they aren't exclusive. Even if someone doesn't buy on that once, and buys it on iTunes... it might have been advertising on one that spurred purchase at another.

I do agree, that my buying habits probably stopped being relavant about 10 years ago (as I am now 24), if with my musical tastes they were ever valid at all.

So, if you're selling well at shows... then keep on! I'd say try to increase your sales at shows instead of pushing it online more.

I would really put some effort/money into trying to figure out who your demographic really is. Have a fan club that people can register for free with some code inside your CDs, so you can track that, count heads at shows and guestimate ages, etc... If you can figure out who is going to your shows, and who is buying tickets, then that's the key. Keep tracking this with each single or major change in the band, and see what changes.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Still trying to get my head around the best way to actually sell music right now... but then again I guess that's everyone's big question.

BING-f*cking-GO...

and every software designer's question, as well..

...

[C Heat]

Never heard of Snowcap till your post.

[Saudade]

To me myspace is just a place where people "befriend" you only because they want to be seen. Only because they want to draw traffic to their own page.

In the end, I don't think anyone should take an informal virtual community too seriously let alone try to convert page views to sales. Just look at the Tila Tequila case study.

f you believe your music is up to par, maybe (contrary to popular belief) the best way to leverage myspace is to carefully associate yourself with similar artists to what your band is offering, perhaps even artists near your locale (for purposes of publicising gigs). Instead of accepting every Tom Dick or Harry as your friend.

Otherwise, people will only visit your page by random, or mostly if you have an interesting avatar featuring hot chicks in hot poses And you can't expect random visitors to purchase your tracks unless your music has a really universal appeal or really kick ass.

That said, the crowd at myspace are expected to be slow to adjust their perception towards "myspace as a storefront".

I also happen to hate myspace for its cluttered layout. Makes me giddy looking at it But that's out of context for this post....

[Rufuss Sewell]

Actually MySpace is extremely good for a lot of very real things. When I moved to Austin from Sacramento I was able to get my studio off the ground mostly with the help of MySpace. Just about every band is on MySpace and it's easy to sift through them and quickly find bands I'd like to work with and talk to them.

Also MySpace has been really great for Estrum as far as getting people to come out to shows... and thus buy CD's. For an unsigned band it's really a god send. Through MySpace Estrum has been offered a few record deals, (not good ones mind you) several gigs, interviews and tons of other worth while relationships including very sincere fans who have driven from hours away to see our shows.

It's just that part about selling downloads that isn't quite working out. I'm mostly trying to see if ANYONE is actually making money from downloads. Independent artists I mean.

Definitely some great suggestions so far though so keep 'em coming.

[SNOCAP]

First of all, thanks for using SNOCAP. We appreciate the support we have gotten from thousands of independent artists like yourself.

We've seen some artists have great success through our service. A couple of things that seem to be working to convert fiends to buyers are:
- Embed the SNOCAP MyStore directly under the MySpace music player. That gives it visibility above the fold.
- Past the store into a bulletin and send it out to your friends with an explanation/story about the tracks that are in it. If you record a new track, send it out to your friends in a bulletin. That is a great way to get impulse purchases.
- Try different prices. If you lower track prices down to something like 79 cents you may see an increase in sales. Try also running price discounts for a limited time to create a sense of urgency to buy.
- Try uploading some live tracks from a particularly good show. Fans that were at the show will want to buy these to relive some memories.
- Try releasing a new track every month and create a regular conversation with your fans.
- Blog about your music and the music in your SNOCAP MyStore. Paste the store into your blog.
- Offer some tracks as online exclusives not to be found on CD.

A great example of an artist that has done some innovative things and put unique content is Esthero. Her MySpace is www.myspace.com/pinkpirate1. And you can buy directly from her SNOCAP MyStore right here. Try it out...

<embed src="http://void.snocap.com/s/T3-31324-UBYBN32B4J-W/" width="425" height="300" style="background: url(http://void.snocap.com/b/T3-31324-UBYBN32B4J-W/);"/>

I hope some of these tips help. And keep at it. Your success will come from building a deep connection with your fans which can be effectively nurtured online through MySpace

Originally Posted by SNOCAP

First of all, thanks for using SNOCAP. We appreciate the support we have gotten from thousands of independent artists like yourself.

We've seen some artists have great success through our service. A couple of things that seem to be working to convert fiends to buyers are:
- Embed the SNOCAP MyStore directly under the MySpace music player. That gives it visibility above the fold.
- Past the store into a bulletin and send it out to your friends with an explanation/story about the tracks that are in it. If you record a new track, send it out to your friends in a bulletin. That is a great way to get impulse purchases.
- Try different prices. If you lower track prices down to something like 79 cents you may see an increase in sales. Try also running price discounts for a limited time to create a sense of urgency to buy.
- Try uploading some live tracks from a particularly good show. Fans that were at the show will want to buy these to relive some memories.
- Try releasing a new track every month and create a regular conversation with your fans.
- Blog about your music and the music in your SNOCAP MyStore. Paste the store into your blog.
- Offer some tracks as online exclusives not to be found on CD.

A great example of an artist that has done some innovative things and put unique content is Esthero. Her MySpace is www.myspace.com/pinkpirate1.

I hope some of these tips help. And keep at it. Your success will come from building a deep connection with your fans which can be effectively nurtured online through MySpace.

So that's how you convert Fiends to buyers

I always thought giving them the first hit for free was the best tactic.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Hahaha... that's some funny stuff!

Well it's good to hear directly from Snocap on this one. For the life of me I can't figure out how to embed the store directly under the player.

What the hell?

[over-man]

Yeah, figuring out where to paste the code into MySpace can be a real bitch sometimes... I don't enjoy sifting through lines of code.

[SNOCAP]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Hahaha... that's some funny stuff!

Well it's good to hear directly from Snocap on this one. For the life of me I can't figure out how to embed the store directly under the player.

What the hell?

Here is the step-by-step instructions on how to embed your MyStore right beneath your player...

1. Log into your MySpace account.

2. Click on the "Create your MySpace Music Store Now!" link.

3. This takes you to a co-branded information page. Click on the "Set up MyStore" button.

4. This takes you to SNOCAP.com - log into you account with your SNOCAP login email and password.

5. You will now be on the "Embed Your Store" page - select the "Yes" option to embed your MyStore, and press continue.

6. You will get a success message, and your store will appear on your page after MySpace has processed the data. This will take a few minutes.

7. You can then continue to your SNOCAP account!

If you need additional help from here, please contact support@snocap.com. They'll be happy to help you out.

[SNOCAP]

Originally Posted by dissolva

Last I heard, Snocap sales are not reported to SoundScan. Any change on this?

We are not currently reporting to SoundScan, but this may change in the future.

[Rufuss Sewell]

There is no "Create your MySpace music store" link on my home page.

[filthyrich]

Sorry to hicack, but my name is Dick.

Wow.
You can get 50 kids to your shows?

We cannot.

http://www.myspace.com/thirteenblack


Thirteen Black
Male fronted; agressive non-melodic kinda old schoolish punk that listened to too much Metallica and Pantera growing up.

The good recordings start after the first song on the page.
The newest one (it plays when you go to the page) is something I recorded in one night and mixed in another night for a compilation cd. Oh yeah, the cover of B.E. Girl is something I recorded 2 or 3 years ago on my crappy Behringer board before I upgraded.

By the way: The recordings are great. I hope you find a drummer.

[SNOCAP]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

There is no "Create your MySpace music store" link on my home page.

Rufus,

Sorry that you can't find that link. The link should be on the left side of the home page within MySpace where you manage your artist profile (not on your actual profile page). Please send me an email at press@snocap.com and I will forward it on to our support team and be sure that they get you squared away. Once they get to the bottom of it we can post here so that others can learn. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[thenoodle]

I have a question for you three guys who mentioned you're not getting action from Snocap. Why even use Snocap?

I too have never heard of them. I was looking at the earlier Snocap suggestions for heightening public awareness of your tracks, but when it gets down to it, the steps primarily serve as a way to heighten the public's awareness of...Snocap. Not necessarily you.

I'm not saying Snocap is a scam, I'm just saying "why are you going this route?" Especially when you guys are making more money...every time...with ideas you execute on your own (your music, selling at your shows etc).

Why not take all those great earlier suggestions, with the target being aimed at your own store instead of Snocap? The Snocap site isn't that elaborate of a web template. Setting up a store around paypal etc isn't brain surgery. Make your own store. You're the ones doing the work here. You're the ones having the sales luck with the direct crowd. You're doing a pretty good job with online promotion. How about aim it at your own store?

As it is, it appears Snocap is being very well taken care of by YOU. Should be the other way around. Sounds like so far, the reality is that you pay them a yearly fee...and maybe a cut of each sale and who knows what else and....you are making no money from them. Something wrong with that picture.

AND now you have a suggestion as to how to drive even more of your audience to the Snocap site so Snocap can generate more site traffic. The suggestion was for you do all the work on that one in order to heighten the public's awareness of Snocap. Awareness of Snocap is guaranteed to go up. Sales of your music via Snocap is not guranteed. Something wrong with that picture too.

Essentially, none of this is different than the old record company days. Which makes it even harder for me to understand why anyone would choose nowadays to sign up with companies modeled after the old days buisiness structure. You are paying money and getting nothing in return.

On one hand, if your music sucked and NOBODY on the planet wanted it, that would be one issue. But since you sell a pretty good clip of cds at your gigs and have a following, imo, it's the Snocap guys who aren't doing an effective job FOR YOU.

Has Snocap come to you telling you how many staff guys they have out promoting Snocap to major publications? Have they told you how and when they plan to implement reporting to Soundscan? Have they broken out a 2007 chart of how all the yearly member fees are being reinvested in massive advertising campaign to heighten the public's awareness of Snocaps artist catalogue? And where that specific advertising will happen? Do the yearly fees get reinvested into any mass market type marketing plans by Snocap? Or do the fees simply pay for the website and anything left over buys houses and boats and cars for the Snocap owners?

Again, I don't know Snocap. They might be the best of the best for artists and download music sales. I'm just saying, you're the one paying the money out of pocket to retain their services. In return, they're not making YOU any money. IMO right there, that means it's time to can them.

Make your own store. You obviously know how to promote. You're doing some good things and have a good product and a customer base. Take the earlier suggestions regarding blogs etc, incorporate them to your own store....KEEP all your money. Or a lot more of it.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Hey, just want to let you guys know that we followed the suggestions given above and yesterday our sales were significantly up. We actually sold more yesterday than the whole last two weeks that we've had the store up.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

My band Estrum is currently the #3 unsigned progressive band in Texas according to the MySpace top artists list. We get about 1000 plays per day and get a lot of great feedback. But our Snocap sales are pretty much dismal. We sell way more CD's when we play to 50 kids then when we announce new music to our 13,000 friends on MySpace.

Do you guys find that people are more comfortable with iTunes and they just aren't comfortable with Snocap yet?

Or are you feeling like people still just want CD's and don't really care to download songs at all.

Or maybe you are doing well with Snocap?!?

What have your experiences been so far?

Maybe we just aren't presenting our store very well.

This is a link to my band's page if you want to check it out and give me some suggestions:

</a>

You might also want to tell your bass player (or whoever that is) to stop spamming people's pages with the ploy message "What have you been up to lately?" ;-) Clever though.

[Saudade]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

I have a question for you three guys who mentioned you're not getting action from Snocap. Why even use Snocap?

I too have never heard of them.....

SNOCAP, if I am not wrong, is another brainchild of the guy who created Napster, Shawn Fanning. I think SNOCAP started off conceptually as some "digital media clearing house" concept that sounded f***king brilliant but nobody knew exactly how it will work. It was supposed to track legit vs illegit media via some fingerprint technology and exist inside P2P networks to direct consumers to the legit files instead of the illegit ones. Or something like that.

Somehow, they morphed into this community storefront "widget" thingy and I feel it is a rather shrewd move. Per track download stores (like Itunes), subscription based stores (Rhapsody), dedicated direct selling music sites (like Magnatune) - everyone is just experimenting how best to serve the hungry music consumer.

SNOCAP is quick enough to secure an exclusive deal with the largest community player myspace, and now myspace has to boot out all other storefront widgets by rivals of SNOCAP, like Indie911's Hoooka.

Being an indie artist, the more varied the choice of digital distribution/retailing, the better it is for me. Yes they are charging (ahem) a slightly high commission per track by my standards, but for artists that are well entrenched in places like myspace, it could be a viable business model since the traffic is already "there".

[Rufuss Sewell]

Originally Posted by Animus

You might also want to tell your bass player (or whoever that is) to stop spamming people's pages with the ploy message "What have you been up to lately?" ;-) Clever though.

First of all that's me. My full name is Jason Rufuss Sewell.

Secondly, we get about 100 friend requests a day and every one of those people get a similar greeting message. What else would you expect me to say to a complete stranger? I hardly consider it spam, and we get a HUGE amount of feedback from people who appreciate that we take the time to actually talk to them.

I see a ton of bands that just plaster some show flyer or blatant advertisement. But I don't see anything wrong with sending out a nice little greeting and an artistic photo to people who have already expressed interest in our band.

You do understand that people have to be our friend before we can post a comment right?

I still can't figure out how to get the store under the player though!!!!

[Saudade]

I just read the FAQ in SNOCAP's site:


"Q: I live outside the USA, can I still sign-up for a SNOCAP account?

A: Today, only sound recording copyright owners who are residents of the United States can use SNOCAP's Digital Registry. To apply for a SNOCAP account, go to http://www.snocap.com/join/. If you currently reside out of the United States or do not have a US Social Security Number, just hold on. We are working hard everyday to offer this service for you, so stay tuned."



Hope it does int'l soon...

[treymonfauntre]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

First of all that's me. My full name is Jason Rufuss Sewell.

Secondly, we get about 100 friend requests a day and every one of those people get a similar greeting message. What else would you expect me to say to a complete stranger? I hardly consider it spam, and we get a HUGE amount of feedback from people who appreciate that we take the time to actually talk to them.

I see a ton of bands that just plaster some show flyer or blatant advertisement. But I don't see anything wrong with sending out a nice little greeting and an artistic photo to people who have already expressed interest in our band.

You do understand that people have to be our friend before we can post a comment right?

I still can't figure out how to get the store under the player though!!!!

hate to say it but theres nothing that makes me think "this band is going to be AWFUL" more than seeing generic "hi!" messages with a press photo under it on somebody's myspace page.

[feedback]

i generally don't like myspace but i think the snocap addition makes it a lot more "pro" - or pro-looking - even though it probably won't generate many sales for most bands and won't make much of a difference as far as getting gigs, etc.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Originally Posted by treymonfauntre

hate to say it but theres nothing that makes me think "this band is going to be AWFUL" more than seeing generic "hi!" messages with a press photo under it on somebody's myspace page.

I can definitely agree with that. Because most bands that have time to communicate directly with their fans are start up bands... and most of those are pretty awful. There's no way in hell I'd click on a random banner. But I'm a jaded studio owner.

There's no denying that a ton of people are NOT like you and I and are actively looking for cool underground bands and are willing to take a chance and sift through all the crap to find decent underground music.

I know because I talk to hundreds of them every day... e.

But that's really beside the point. Regardless of whether our band is awful sounding or spammers, we're still getting WAY more people who want a CD over downloads. It's actually surprising to me but that seems to be the case. We're going to start selling CD's on our site this week. I'll report back with ratios.

[PDC]

The big question for the OP is, are you getting 1,000 NEW plays everyday from 1,000 new visitors? What is the ratio of unique vistors to plays? Isn't the play counter racking up plays on other people's pages? If 250 people have four people look at their page every day, and your song loads, then there ya' are.

Personally, I would doubt that Myspace becomes a big revenue maker for anyone, because of the demographic of the average user. I would venture to guess that the average person who spends an hour a day surfing Myspace is not making much money, or is ripping off their boss at work, and not spending much money. I could be totally wrong.

CD Baby's connection with Myspace might help. CD Baby has toll free ordering, so people don't have to put their CC# out there.