I've got 17 vocal tracks and want great cohesion

[juicylime]

I'm working on a track that has a total of 17 vocal tracks (make that 21 and growing). Some are just small parts that needed their own track for different reasons, others are for stacked harmonies. I have worked before with large vocal track counts but normally take a delicate approach in the mix whereby I mix in certain lines or intervals for a touch of flavour rather than being really audible. But for this song I want a wall of sound vocal pad type effect where everything is up front. I feel it's getting there but it's tough. Sometimes it seems just right but then one small change really shifts the balance of how it feels.

Any tips on working like this?
My approach at the moment is to route the tracks to a group track with compression pulling just a few db at 2:1. Some of the individual tracks are individually compressed, pretty heavily too, to make them "sit" where I want. I haven't done any EQ other than a little to balance between where the voice changes register for a quick line. Should I try various EQ's across the various tracks? I was thinking of keeping reverb/delay for the main group track only. Or is creating different ambient spaces for different lines a good way to create space Any tips or pointers are appreciatted.

[Unclenny]

Great question....I can't wait to see what folks bring to the table.
As for me....I also stack a lot of vox and I tend to work with creative panning, a little pitch shifting and gentle broadstroke EQ and compression.

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Great question....I can't wait to see what folks bring to the table.
As for me....I also stack a lot of vox and I tend to work with creative panning, a little pitch shifting and gentle broadstroke EQ and compression.

I'd love to hear about what you're doing with the EQ and in particular the pitch shifting.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by juicylime

Any tips on working like this?

Whatever works?

Really every vocal situation is different so there is "no one way for everything" that works.

Sometimes compression is the thing. Sometimes no compression is better. Sometimes its a combination of both. Sometimes some low and hi shelving is called for. Sometimes only rolling the top and fattening the bottomn makes it blend in the mix. Sometimes its a combination of both. Sometimes the effects you use give the glue. Sometimes dry sounding effects with parallel compression is what the talent invisioned. Sometimes its the combination of both.

[sneezebomb]

wish i was really helping here. Instead, i will cast my lot with the other curious parties - i'm working on a song with 40 some odd vocal tracks right now and am going to need to do some serious track consolidation as well. Nice thread topic.

[Unclenny]

Pitch shifting.......

One thing I like to do is track three or four harmonies and then comp them on to two mono tracks.....hard panned.
Pitch one side down a few cents (maybe 7) and pitch the other side up the same amount.

[andychamp]

tape?

[FNP123]

this is a great thread, crazy idea about the pitch shifting, can't wait to see if anyone else lets a little bit of their tricks out of the bag!

[Empty Planet]

You should buzz Sqye. He's mixed some crazy track amounts and crafted some great results. Maybe he'd be willing to scatter a few gems.



Cheers.

[Unclenny]

Hmmmm.......TC Helicon Quintet.
I guess that should go in the 'Secret Weapons' thread.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by andychamp

tape?

ITB

[Joemamma]

Good balances/harmonies
Good panning/stereo separation
Good EQ'ing on lead and background vocals

Automate these if necessary... It always is...

Keep the lead vocal(s) separated from all the stacks and background vocals. Make a bgv group.

Find the EQ trouble spots (build ups) in the vocals and EQ them out on the lead or the bgv, depending on the sound you want.

Add reverb (with good pre-delay setting) and delay sparingly. Maybe only on the lead(s)...

That should cover about all of it!

[Sqye]

...

man, i'm a vocal production nut...tracking, stacking, and treating....you name it..

in my earlier days. i'd track singers, bvs and choirs,
until they HATED me, then i'd f&ck with their vocals for an ETERNITY in the studio...

i've done just about everything i could ever think of - both itb and otb...
in every style of music i love - and there are MANY...

i wish i could give some quick easy pointers, but, like thrill said, it's really so endless....
and SUBJECTIVE...session, facility, personnel and product dependent.

it's a never-ending universe of a journey....SO MUCH TO LEARN AND TRY....
if there's a trick or technique, chances are, i've done it....

oh, did i mention, i'm a vocal editing and production maniac...?
it's one of my many joys in life...

unfortunately, it is such a huge issue, it's sort of like asking,

what kind of wine is the best?? ..

or

how do i write a really good poem using LOTS of WORDS?

or

"how does one go about playing guitar?"

answer:
"simple - sling that baby down low, light up your stogie, and ROCK that sh&t, money"


sorry if this isn't very helpful...good luck - the vocal recording world is your oyster

...

[sneezebomb]

"simple - sling that baby down low, light up your stogie, and ROCK that sh&t, money"

i guess that's good enough for me.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Whatever works?

Really every vocal situation is different so there is "no one way for everything" that works.

Sometimes compression is the thing. Sometimes no compression is better. Sometimes its a combination of both. Sometimes some low and hi shelving is called for. Sometimes only rolling the top and fattening the bottomn makes it blend in the mix. Sometimes its a combination of both. Sometimes the effects you use give the glue. Sometimes dry sounding effects with parallel compression is what the talent invisioned. Sometimes its the combination of both.

again, as thrill is saying - it's all so subjective - what i wanna know is what's
happening with the track underneath the vocals FIRST, (many times, it's vocals first)
or phrasing it a different way - WHAT DO YOU WANT YOUR TOTAL MIX TO FEEL LIKE?

or, if it's specifically a singer songwriter, choir or a capella group,
what are the accompanying instruments doing?

this is SO IMPORTANT in the determination of how your vocals will be treated.

sometimes, compressing some of the instruments more will show off better vocal dynamics
- other times - the opposite. sometimes, letting everything breath is great,
other times compressing everything is better - how wide do you want your stereo field to be?
do you like higher register stuff on the right? lower on the left?


it SO depends on your total mix - i can't stress this enough.
and this can ALSO CHANGE so DRAMATICALLY from SECTION to SECTION...

what's your concept for the recording, or artist, as a whole?

do you want the vocals to be more a PART of the over-all orchestral perception?

or are they more background, or featured? etc..

are you trying to really DISCERN each vocal? or present more of a vocal wall effect?

does it change every syllable?? oy.....


....endless..

anyways.....happy vocalizingnessizalationalism

..

[Empty Planet]

Give your ears a treat and listen to the beginning of this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxSXe...elated&search=

Bohemian Rhapsody, just the vox.

There's a tip or two in there you can cull just by listening (and watching -- check out that automation).


Cheers.

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

Bohemian Rhapsody, just the vox.

thanks for that.