UAD-1 Helios Type 69......meh

[manthe]

Anyone else a little less than impressed with UA's new EQ plug?

I A/B/C/D/E/F'd it with a bunch of other 'high-end' plug-in EQs (UAD-1 Neves/Pultec Pro, SSL Duende channel, URS A series) along with my Maxi-Q outboard EQs.

I could find no reason at all to buy this thing. That is to say, it is not *bad*, but It really does not sound 'special' in any way. At least to my ears. I remember the way I reacted when I 1st tried the UAD Neve EQs and the Duende. This didn't even come close, IMO.

I'm not trying to come off as a plug-in EQ snob, but this was really unimpressive

Am I missing the boat here?

[aryschien]

I just posted something I found in the UAD-1 forum.

I found that if I turned down the volumn of the source material and then cranked up the Level Adjust knob of the Helios all the way up, it sounded much nicer than at unity gain.

And that's when I started to prefer the Helios over the 1081 plug-in.

Yet I don't have enough time to make more tests, so I'm not sure if that really what happened instead of what I WANTED to hear.

[lord_bunny]

I read about the Neve and the Helios... do I really need anything more than a surgical EQ and the Pultec-Pro? Is it like using different Pre's and Mic's to change up the overall sonic character of a dense mix?

[manthe]

Originally Posted by lord_bunny

I read about the Neve and the Helios... do I really need anything more than a surgical EQ and the Pultec-Pro? Is it like using different Pre's and Mic's to change up the overall sonic character of a dense mix?

It is very much like that, which to me is absolutely key. Trust me, unless you have a lot of top-end, outboard EQs, the Neve models (as well as the SSL Duende) will change the way you approach ITB mixing. These pieces of software are really incredible.

All i can say is try it for yourself. It is pointless to try to verbalize it. Perhaps not at the same level, but have you ever A/B'd an ART 'toob' pre with a real, full plate voltage, high-end tube pre? To me, recording audio is all about 'character' and 'vibe' (unless you're going for precise accuracy or something else). Any tools I can employ to impart character and vibe to the trcks that I record become priceless to me.

Now, contrary to what some folks around here may lead you to believe, these tools do not have to cost a billion dollars or be impossibly esoteric and difficult to obtain. They just have to sound right for you or for the project at hand.

[lord_bunny]

Yea, I've had a few MP's (currently used as hammers or door-stops) and I've run them against many a fine pre... I've used nice E.Q. in other studio's but for my personal space it's always been ITB. I get what your saying. There was some weird software glitch and my UAD trail for the Neve stuff never seemed to happen.

[js1]

I think I'm liking it. Played with it on a number of sources, and it wasn't like "use this on bass" or "use this on an acoustic". But there was some places I tried it that were immune to other EQs (Neve, Pultec) and with a simple twist of the mid band, there it was...

js

[aryschien]

I was not totally correct about the Level Adjust knob. Cranking it up open things a little bit, with less low end, but nothing magical.

Can't make a decision yet. Got a couple of API eqs, but not enough for a mix. Still need first class eq plug-ins like the UA Neve and Helios.

The Helios is not "just another Pultec Pro", just like the 1081 is not "just another Cambridge". To me they are really better than the old ones.

Can the Helios help? Definitely. The thing about different eqs is that they sound different and WORK differently. It's really fast to tweak some sounds with the Helios, while sometimes it's faster with the 1081/1073.

I know I might be able to get very similar results with the Cambridge, but I don't want to work hard to achieve that. I want to save the time and energy on the more important things.

[RoundBadge]

why they bothered to model this eq is beyond me..
the real eq's are ok,the 10k boost can be sweet.not nearly as powerful as a neve,api,etc.
the pre's are were the vibe is at.
more marketing crap featuring vintage gear graphics..how original
they should put thier developing $ into something new and actually useful
break new ground already!tutt

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by aryschien

I was not totally correct about the Level Adjust knob. Cranking it up open things a little bit, with less low end, but nothing magical.

I think someone did a null test and showed that there was no difference when cranking up the gain knob.

It's a shame... I'd like it better if UA moddled the overload characteristics at higher gain settings.

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

they should put thier developing $ into something new and actually useful
break new ground already!tutt

I agree 100000% with Roundbadge!

come on any hardware simulation would be a failure of the original ...this is why people than can afford it buy the eal deal.....do you think that the manufacturares and designaers are not capable to create a new amazing design that can sounds as good as some vintage EQ? i definetly think that yes!!!
So i think with more reasons the Plug ins designers should try to create a new amazing EQ plug in ..something that just sounds incredible and do not be limited by trying to imitate something!

[lpkyer]

honestly, i think the pultec pro is a much much better value than the helios...it really adds the mojo when you know how to use it.

[sharky]

Yeah... I use the UAD plugs a lot, and I like 'em. But on the last group of songs I did I used a bunch of the Dimension D and the Space Echo plugs. I ended up renting those two units and pumping the tracks I had previously used the plugs on (or just performing them again) through the real world version.

Big difference.

To me they are great to get you in the neighborhood, and hey, with some tracks it isn't so mission critical to have the real thing, so I'll leave the plugs on.

But now I'm almost hesitant to start to fall in love with emulations of gear I HAVEN'T heard, because I'll fall in love with the sound and then know the real world version will be that much better. And then, of course, I'll HAVE add it to the list of things I HAVE to get at some point.

I love the URS Api 550 emulation. Used those things all over the place in the past year. Had to rent the real thing for some mixes. Big difference. I owe American Express $2500 for the API 5500 I just bought.

I'm telling you, all these cool sounding plug ins may be the end of me.

I almost don't even want to listen.

[Spyrow]

Originally Posted by aryschien

Can the Helios help? Definitely. The thing about different eqs is that they sound different and WORK differently. It's really fast to tweak some sounds with the Helios, while sometimes it's faster with the 1081/1073.

IMO, they do not work differently. Really. They are all different but they are just "like presets". They do nothing but EQ. Try using a tone signal (500hz for example) with the LA2A, 1176, Fairchild or even the Dimension D. They all add distorsion so they sound so good to our ears. But in my opinion EQ's are different, they do not do distorsion or compression like the analog ones, just EQ. I don't know why UAD or somebody is not adding more character to the EQ's but they are adding nothing to my ears (and to my spectrum analyzer).
I like to emulate them with a simple Q10 to see what they are doing. For example, I can't hear difference between the Helios 10kHz hishelf with 12dB and a Q10 with 2 hishelves, both at 1980Hz with 6dB each and a peak at 2000Hz with 1dB and a 7 Q. Ok, ok, it's not perfect but they are so near that I can't tell which is one and which I like more or which has better quality.
The Neve 1073 was a bit more difficult, I needed 8 bands, but again I got it to my ears. So they are doing nothing magical but EQ.

For me they are just presets of EQ's which usually sound good so if you try them you have an high probability of success. They are usefull of course but not magic. So in my opinion the work exactly the same but they have different presets (frec, Q, gain..).

I would like to hear more opinions with the Q10 vs the Helios hishelf (for example) so somebody can confirm I'm not mad or can affirm I'm deaf


I have talked too much, let's do an A/B to see if I'm deaf

It's a Sting song, 3 loops together, original, and both 12dB hishelf, two times. It's a wav 2.5mb in my home server so it can be a bit slow.
Let's say, loop1 = original, loop2=?, loop3=?

www.luxsuria.com/sound/sting_helios_vs_q10.wav

PS: again I'm not saying they are not usefull or worth, I just side they are not magic and not better that a matched Q10 for example.

[Jules]

HA! I gotta try that plug in out myself..

[CorkyTart]

I have the following UAD Plugs:

Neve 1073 1081. The Pultecs, The Cambridge and the mastering eq. I really dont think I need another one.

However, I did jump to buy the Roland Space Echo. That was new and cool.

My advice to UA: Develop a frickin' bad ass outboard processor like Duende. I'd pay $1,500 for that in a heartbeat to be able to use many instances of UAD plugs. These cute little plugs here and there no longer interest me. If you're going to release a plug, make it something other than an EQ.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by Spyrow

It's a Sting song, 3 loops together, original, and both 12dB hishelf, two times. It's a wav 2.5mb in my home server so it can be a bit slow.
Let's say, loop1 = original, loop2=?, loop3=?

www.luxsuria.com/sound/sting_helios_vs_q10.wav

PS: again I'm not saying they are not usefull or worth, I just side they are not magic and not better that a matched Q10 for example.

link doesn't work here....

[redroom]

Im really enjoying the new Helios 69

I have no idea if I can get the same results with another eq plug maybe I could if I spent a lot of time.What I like is the simplicity and speed of a plug in like the Helios 69.

[4damind]

I'm not sure with Helios. Yes its not bad, but I cannot find at the moment that its a "must have". May be its needs some more time over the weekend to play with this new baby

[manthe]

Originally Posted by redroom

Im really enjoying the new Helios 69

I have no idea if I can get the same results with another eq plug maybe I could if I spent a lot of time.What I like is the simplicity and speed of a plug in like the Helios 69.

I've spent a little more time with it now, just to see if I was being stupid at first. I still fail to see why i should be impressed. Maybe I'm spoiled by having 4 UAD-1 cards and all of their other EQs (except the 1081) AND a Duende. Maybe I'm also just tired of EQ plugs. I dunno.

Having 4 cards gives me the ability to run as many plugs as I need to, without worrying a bit. I'm not one to use all that many plugs on a song anyhow. Between trying to get a good sound on the way in and using bussing very extensively, my plug count is never all that high.

I think the Space Echo is truly my favorite UAD plug-in (maybe closely followed by or in a tie with the Plate 140)! I think it is one of the better, more creative plugs out there. EQs and compressors are just tools, at the end of the day. They are not very 'inspiring'. Although an 1176LN or LA2A can be pretty inspiring when you 1st strap it across a vox track! But, I am in agreement with many others...UA should REALLY put out a few more inspiring and 'creativity centric' plug-ins.

[Spyrow]

Originally Posted by redroom

Im really enjoying the new Helios 69

I have no idea if I can get the same results with another eq plug maybe I could if I spent a lot of time.What I like is the simplicity and speed of a plug in like the Helios 69.

Hey, I'm not saying the new Helios is bad, I'm just saying it has no better SONIC QUALITY than the Q10 with the same EQ curve. Doing the same, they do the same!

Sorry for the broken link, I forgot I changed my router one week ago and it is not correctly configurated yet. I'll do it this night.

I just want to know if you can hear a difference OF QUALITY between both samples because maybe I don't have yet good enough ears to hear that difference, just that. Or maybe the work inside equal.

This night! promise!

[Spyrow]

hey! solved! (I think)

please confirm somebody

http://www.luxsuria.com/sound/sting_helios_vs_q10.wav

I just want to now if you can hear an improvement in the sound quality in any of the 2 loops, and which you think is helios.
So confirm I'm deaf and there are quality differences, or confirm that "analog" EQ's are just presets of good sounding bands!

I was the first impressed because I thought that some EQ's were "cleaner", "transparent", "analog", etc.. and Q10 was not precisely the best in sound quality.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by Spyrow

hey! solved! (I think)

please confirm somebody

http://www.luxsuria.com/sound/sting_helios_vs_q10.wav

I just want to now if you can hear an improvement in the sound quality in any of the 2 loops, and which you think is helios.
So confirm I'm deaf and there are quality differences, or confirm that "analog" EQ's are just presets of good sounding bands!

I was the first impressed because I thought that some EQ's were "cleaner", "transparent", "analog", etc.. and Q10 was not precisely the best in sound quality.

Good work on the test. They're very close! But I they do not sound like the exact same EQ curve... or that may just be a difference in the character between the two plugs?

If I had to guess, I think the 2nd loop is the helios and the 3rd is the Q10. To me the second loop sounds a bit softer and less stident than the 3rd loop.

They do not completely null against each other, so there is some difference there.

How did you attempt to match Q and boosts?

[Spyrow]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

Good work on the test. They're very close! But I they do not sound like the exact same EQ curve... or that may just be a difference in the character between the two plugs?

If I had to guess, I think the 2nd loop is the helios and the 3rd is the Q10. To me the second loop sounds a bit softer and less stident than the 3rd loop.

They do not completely null against each other, so there is some difference there.

How did you attempt to match Q and boosts?

Thanks. I used pink noise, my ears and a spectrum analyzer to match them.
They are not perfectly matched, sure, but for me there is not a winner in sound quality. I have tested them with voices, guitars, kicks, snares, bass, etc...
When I first listen to the helios I said: "Hey, what natural sounding!" but then I got that "natural sounding" with the same EQ in the Q10, or at least that 99% natural sounding (which I haven't ever got with the Q10, maybe because of the very narrow Q's I was using compared with these plugs. The 10k hishelf of the Helios starts in 2k for example. A 10k hishelf in Q10 starts in 10k)
Same with the hiself of the neve 1073. I can post another instruments with the helios or neve, and its Q10 corresponding. Just ask.

Hey, but I'm here just to learn so I'm happy if I can discover more things, and hope to discover I can hear more things.
I like to know what I'm really doing and what's going on inside the things I'm using.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by Spyrow

Thanks. I used pink noise, my ears and a spectrum analyzer to match them.
They are not perfectly matched, sure, but for me there is not a winner in sound quality. I have tested them with voices, guitars, kicks, snares, bass, etc...
When I first listen to the helios I said: "Hey, what natural sounding!" but then I got that "natural sounding" with the same EQ in the Q10, or at least that 99% natural sounding (which I haven't ever got with the Q10, maybe because of the very narrow Q's I was using compared with these plugs. The 10k hishelf of the Helios starts in 2k for example. A 10k hishelf in Q10 starts in 10k)
Same with the hiself of the neve 1073. I can post another instruments with the helios or neve, and its Q10 corresponding. Just ask.

Hey, but I'm here just to learn so I'm happy if I can discover more things, and hope to discover I can hear more things.
I like to know what I'm really doing and what's going on inside the things I'm using.

Very cool. I have not demoed the Helios at home so I do not know it's "sound" but I think you showed you can get very close with the Q10.

I'd be VERY curious to listen to your Neve example. I actually have worked with the UAD Neves and I remember them as sounding very "analogish".... so if you can match this with the Q10 I would be impressed!

[kats]

I've run the real H69's through an analyzer. The Q doesn't start noticable sharpening until about 7 dB of boost. It has a very wide Q before that and is quite subtle until you start diming it.

On the mid bands, if I'm using the eq, it's always at least 4dB of gain. On vox it's great to find the singers formant and give it a boost there...around the 2.8 mark depending on the singer. The 10k boost you can be pretty subtle with and get a real nice sound...never harsh no matter how hard you go. I find the mid band really is what makes the eq special - from bass guitar, e guitar, vocals, drum attack etc. The bass freqs are no big deal to me and I usually just use the board eq for that range.

[NuSkoolTone]

I got to play with it last night on a mix I've been struggling with to see if it was the silver bullet. No dice. I Say it's definitely a great EQ, but it didn't floor me to where I had to buy it this second. There will be another promotion down the road and if I have the spare change I'll pick it up.

The killer app in the brief time I spent with it seemed to be vocals and drums, possibly bass. What was nice working in the constraints of the plug ins is it gave me ideas quicker for what frequencies to work with to use on another plug.

Last it's not REALLY hungry, but it seems to use about 15% of DSP. If I want to use several, I'll need to buy the 4th and final card. After that I'm either halting Plug in purchases and waiting for UAD to finally release a new hardware solution. Which will probably be two years out still. So maybe I'll start looking at other things to upgrade.

[zodiaque]

the question for me is: would you have eq'd the same way with q10 as you did if the helios was not around?

lots of stuff sounds good, but for me it's the workflow and the inspiration that makes the difference. if plugs like helios suit your way of working, use them. if not, use the tools that do it for you. no plugin does magic, but it can help to bring out yours in a way, that others don't do.

[DAWgEAR]

When I first activated the demo, I thought the Helios 69 was nice, but not exceptional compared to the rest of the UAD-1 EQs. The vouchers were tempting, but I was ready to pass.

After using it for a full day, primarily on acoustic guitar and bass, getting familiar with its subtleties, and A/Bing between Cambridge, Neve, Pultec etc., I cannot live without it! Needless to say, my vouchers got used!

By the way, how does one pronounce "helios"? Jules?

[TheSweetener]

I think the plugin sounds quite cool, but I have to say that I get bored of the limitations of these emulations. Okay the hiband is fixed to 10KHz in the original, but do we need to transfer these limitations into the 21st century? I don't think so!
I need good sounding, flexible EQs! I want loooong delay times, not the original Roland ones!

[robdarling]

Wow. Did any of you bother to put it on a kick drum?

Did anyone fail to see how it lifted guitars or vox out of a mix without screwing them up?

I think this thing is fantastic. Much more open than the Neve but not as dull as a modern parametric.

I bought it immediately. And yes, I own all the other UA plugs, so I know what I'm comparing it to.

I think it perfectly splits the difference on having balls but being usable. I love this thing.