Drum overhead mic shootout - suggestions

[big country]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

km 84's are nice on rack toms

seems like alot of the mics chosen would be more suited as room mics than overheads ..but just imho..

it's all what you want..

do you want the main kit sound fron the ovd's and then "fill" with the individual mics or do you want the ovds to be cymbal mics really and get each part of kit close up?

either way the "most accurate" sound on anything with some room between it and the mic should most always come from a quality small diaphram condenser by nature of its design characteristics

I agree ,

but being that the drums are close to a wall the km 84s in my opinion

dont cut it. now if the drums where in the middle of the room ,

my guess would be they would shine for OH's. as for accuracy

to me the royers hands down deliver a real sound of the drum

and the room. also correct me if im wrong , figure 8s have a narrow

line of fire leaving out alot of the sound from the sides of the mic

thanks to our good friend mr.Phase.

what I would do in a small ceiling recording space with a set of 122

is back the mic with a jeckline disk . you could also try this with any mic

with good results. not sure how this would work with pressure gradiant

mics? On my to try list

[666666]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

seems like alot of the mics chosen would be more suited as room mics than overheads... do you want the main kit sound fron the ovd's and then "fill" with the individual mics or do you want the ovds to be cymbal mics really and get each part of kit close up?

Well, potentially both. The last recording I did the overheads alone captured a great overall kit and room sound with great cymbal representation / imaging as well. This overhead stereo signal wound up being the main representation of the drum kit in the mix, along with some close mics to beef things up a bit.... but there were no separate room mics.

Next time I may try using room mics in addition to overheads... etc... (remember, it's a small room though)... hard to predict, always experimenting.

In the meantime I wish to do a mic shootout on overheads just as a way to compare an assortment of mics, get an idea of each mic's character and which ones tend to work well in an overhead situation. I'd love to take all these same mics and do a shootout as "room mics" as well (putting them farther back in the room, in front of the kit), if time allows I will do that too.

...either way the "most accurate" sound on anything with some room between it and the mic should most always come from a quality small diaphram condenser by nature of its design characteristics

From what I have read about and experienced so far, I'd agree. This is why I have mostly SDCs on hand at the moment for the shootout. But in the name of experimentation, I'm interested in trying some LDCs as well and perhaps some ribbons too, etc.

Since the TLM103 gets bashed here so much, I'm afraid to say the following, but... here goes anyway, please save the flames. I used a pair of TLM103s on overheads once and they worked wonderfully for me... through a pair of Amek 9098 pres, into a HEDD 192. Maybe it was just the way I had the mics placed and also a function of the type of sound I was looking for (clean, fast, crisp, detailed, a bit on the brighter side - heavy jazz / rock fusion stuff)... but in the mix the cymbal character and cymbal imaging is just wonderful. In the mix the cymbals sound very natural and very rich. However, I'm sure these tracks were eq-ed a bit in the mix, so... hard to judge the mics alone at this point... but they got the job done.

One thing I found to be a problem with the LDC TLM103s for overheads though (and this may also be a function of how I placed them to an extent, distance, position, etc), the off axis coloration was very evident. The 103s are bright right in front, but get noticeably darker off to the sides.... so any cymbals that were not pretty much right in line with the mics sounded darker and farther away than they actually were.

It was then suggested to me that a SDC mic by nature, in general, would have better off axis response which is why I began to collect mostly SDC mics for a shootout (as well as others).

But having said that, I've also learned from experience that you can never assume that a mic will respond a certain way JUST due to its type, or due to its published frequency response chart, or published pick-up pattern chart, etc. I've learned that the ONLY way to really have any clue as to how a mic will respond and sound in a given situation is to actually USE it and listen back to the results.... period. Thus my interest in doing a shootout first hand and try anything.

Thanks again!

[bobwarren]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

akg 451's

[bobwarren]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

akg 451's

Originally Posted by 666666

Since the TLM103 gets bashed here so much, I'm afraid to say the following, but... here goes anyway, please save the flames. I used a pair of TLM103s on overheads once and they worked wonderfully for me... through a pair of Amek 9098 pres, into a HEDD 192. Maybe it was just the way I had the mics placed and also a function of the type of sound I was looking for (clean, fast, crisp, detailed, a bit on the brighter side - heavy jazz / rock fusion stuff)... but in the mix the cymbal character and cymbal imaging is just wonderful. In the mix the cymbals sound very natural and very rich. However, I'm sure these tracks were eq-ed a bit in the mix, so... hard to judge the mics alone at this point... but they got the job done.

I use a matched pair of TLM 103 all the time with capturing the room. No problems here.

[illiummusic]

I have used the TLM103's as overheads with some great results.
Going through a pair of Avalon 737's, they are very clear, detailed,
and open sounding. Very present sounding but not harsh at all.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by big country

I agree ,

but being that the drums are close to a wall the km 84s in my opinion

dont cut it. now if the drums where in the middle of the room ,

my guess would be they would shine for OH's. as for accuracy

to me the royers hands down deliver a real sound of the drum

and the room. also correct me if im wrong , figure 8s have a narrow

line of fire leaving out alot of the sound from the sides of the mic

thanks to our good friend mr.Phase.

what I would do in a small ceiling recording space with a set of 122

is back the mic with a jeckline disk . you could also try this with any mic

with good results. not sure how this would work with pressure gradiant

mics? On my to try list

i didn't mean as a room mic if that is what you thought ..i just meant enough space not to be choking the sound..i like ribbons or big diaphram condensers as "room" mics..which i consider anything more than around 3to 6 feet from the source..i tend to want FAT and DARKER out of them to give tht feeling of space and HF decay

i remember my father using Crown pressure gradients taped to the ceiling for added "room"

[LaLaFaV]

Originally Posted by Infernal Device

414 TLII's.

I would love to hear how they perform against some boutique mics.

Thanks! Great idea!

The AKG TLII's and Telefunken ELAM 251 and/or Soundelux ELUX 251's are my favorite OH mics. I just love the color of LDC's more. I think maybe the smoother nature they have is what does it for me. The transients just feel better to me that way (less piercing, slower maybe). I feel like I get enough transients from the close mics so I like smoother cymbals. I'd love to try some Royers or Coles ribbons someday...

[big country]

PZM's are supper for picking up the whole room , plus they are very phase friendly


One more tip for the road:


two PZM's some tape stickem together and you have a pretty cool
stereo mic set up

they are probly the most under used mics: to bad

[big country]

what I meant was to get two disks and a set of mics , put the disk (Jeckline) facing the ceiling with the mics pointed at the kit run a spaced pair . it will help with phase and stop alot of the early reflection from the low roof

should help your sound some or give you more options with what ever mic you decide to use for overhead.

I made a disk out of 703 its came in handy.

it works great for putting between the snare and hat . you can pan the
snare hard left and your hats hard right . separates it pretty good
without gates

[drummerboy1533]

I personally own 414TLii's,KM184 and KM84's,AT4050's,ATM450's,GT44's,R84's and R121's.But I have NEVER used them on drums yet.And that is just totally pathetic!!!

[GregoryC]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised nobody mentioned 2 Blue-Kiwi for ovrhead. Bliss!

[robinball]

josephson c42's & Earthworks, can't go wrong!!

[kylergoehle]

i used a pair of aea r84 ribbons for overheads last week on a modern jazz drummer and ended up using very little of the other mics in the mix because of the clarity and warmth of the ohs.

[Space Station]

I'm using AKG C61's on O/H now in my room....they're like valve 451's..really sweet sounding mic's....some people moan about the noise floor of these mic's..I selected two NOS RCA nuvistors for them. Should add I'm using CK1 capsules...

ermmm ...here's a recording I did for a band a couple of weeks ago using 'em..I say ermm cos its a poopy MP3 on myspace thats only a rough mix..the first song. Can't let you have the full king quality version as the albums not released yet.

MySpace.com - Orange Yellow Red - Bognor Regis, UK - Rock / Experimental / Indie - www.myspace.com/orangeyellowredsongs

Mics used were 2x C61 on O/H, C12VR on snare and 414EB (Brass CK12 capsule) on kick...just the four AKG mics.

[margusalviste]

I use a pair of AKG-414s from the very first production year (1971) and 1968 Telefunken v676 mic preamp for overheads and I enjoy every single take with them.

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by Nu-tra

A pair of Peluso P12's

I was really impressed with a P12 for a mono OH. I wish I could spend that kind of mone on a pair for overheads.

Originally Posted by PRobb

The big knock on 184s is that they aren't as good as 84s. That's true, but considering that 84s are one of the all time great mics, the leaves the 184s a lot of room to be awfully good. I like them them as OH for a tight, controlled sound.

121s absolutely kill as OHs for a bigger, roomier sound. And they take EQ and compression really well.

I wonder if the KM184 would take so much shit if they had used a different number. If it was the KM237 instead of 184 would people comeplain and compare them to KM84s?