Looking for an PT Engineer

[chocolate music]

hi guys,

first post, so please be gentle!
I have a project which I wrote and produced with my studiopartner. we have 2 songs which we would like to have mixed top notch.
the style is modern pop/rock and it would be payed well.
the only condition would be that I would like to have the Pro Tools Session.
the reason for this is not that I want to steal your tricks (since I´m not an engineer - I´m a songwriter & producer), but to have the flexibility to make little changes in case of demand.
if you use PT and the condition is O.K. for you, then please feel free to contact me and send me a reference mp3 or a weblink.
the deadline is 15th of April ´07.

[RCM - Ronan]

I am an analog console guy so I can't help you out, but if you need it ITB, hunt down Stewart Cararas http://www.7thlevelproductions.com/ He is "picksail" on gear slutz

[syra]

Originally Posted by chocolate music

hi guys,

first post, so please be gentle!
I have a project which I wrote and produced with my studiopartner. we have 2 songs which we would like to have mixed top notch.
the style is modern pop/rock and it would be payed well.
the only condition would be that I would like to have the Pro Tools Session.
the reason for this is not that I want to steal your tricks (since I´m not an engineer - I´m a songwriter & producer), but to have the flexibility to make little changes in case of demand.
if you use PT and the condition is O.K. for you, then please feel free to contact me and send me a reference mp3 or a weblink.
the deadline is 15th of April ´07.

Tony Shepperd is also someone you should consider. He's one of the very few IMO that can make ITB sound huge...look for him in GS under his actual name.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by chocolate music

hi guys,

first post, so please be gentle!
I have a project which I wrote and produced with my studiopartner. we have 2 songs which we would like to have mixed top notch.
the style is modern pop/rock and it would be payed well.
the only condition would be that I would like to have the Pro Tools Session.
the reason for this is not that I want to steal your tricks (since I´m not an engineer - I´m a songwriter & producer), but to have the flexibility to make little changes in case of demand.
if you use PT and the condition is O.K. for you, then please feel free to contact me and send me a reference mp3 or a weblink.
the deadline is 15th of April ´07.

The problem you will have is that the odds are, you won't have all the same plugins as a good engineer would, so even with the session, you can't recall it.

So then you're looking at having the engineer print audio stems, but that is time consuming, and time is money.

Why don't you have a great engineer mix it (like Ronan) and have the engineer send you a mix over the internet... and as long as you can get back to him in less than 12 hours, I'm guessing, they could make changes.

or - give them extra $ and have them print stems.

just a thought

good luck

MixerGuy

[peeder]

Originally Posted by chocolate music

the only condition would be that I would like to have the Pro Tools Session.
the reason for this is not that I want to steal your tricks

This is an interesting question...how do mix engineers feel about people ogling their tactics? In the restaurant biz, you have chefs dying to publish cookbooks which really do share much (though not all) of their actual recipes. This only results in more people coming to the restaurant, because it's more interesting to have the goose than the golden egg.

Are successful mix engineers paranoid about silly ideas like "secret sauce"? In the food biz, a chef can duplicate virtually any recipe simply by tasting the final product, and I would imagine that's mostly true in audio when you get to that level. I.e. there are no secrets, there are just naive noobs who think they discovered something no one else can figure out.

I'd personally love to see entire mix sessions of the masters start to finish in great detail. It could be like the food network for audio hounds.

[AMIEL]

I am an engineer and If the client wants the mix session..I would give it to them....the same happens with labels!

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by peeder

This is an interesting question...how do mix engineers feel about people ogling their tactics? In the restaurant biz, you have chefs dying to publish cookbooks which really do share much (though not all) of their actual recipes. This only results in more people coming to the restaurant, because it's more interesting to have the goose than the golden egg.

Are successful mix engineers paranoid about silly ideas like "secret sauce"? In the food biz, a chef can duplicate virtually any recipe simply by tasting the final product, and I would imagine that's mostly true in audio when you get to that level. I.e. there are no secrets, there are just naive noobs who think they discovered something no one else can figure out.

I'd personally love to see entire mix sessions of the masters start to finish in great detail. It could be like the food network for audio hounds.

Well I see where you're coming from but with audio it's different, well kinda. Imagine Mario Batali whipping up a great dinner for all your friends, and then right before it goes out you throw some herbs in and say "hey look what I cooked!". Giving out secrets isn't a huge deal but giving someone a finished mix with everything on it can be, there's nothing to stop them from moving a couple faders and calling it there own.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

Well I see where you're coming from but with audio it's different, well kinda. Imagine Mario Batali whipping up a great dinner for all your friends, and then right before it goes out you throw some herbs in and say "hey look what I cooked!". Giving out secrets isn't a huge deal but giving someone a finished mix with everything on it can be, there's nothing to stop them from moving a couple faders and calling it there own.

Nothing stopping them, in that case, from skipping moving the faders and calling the final product their own. I don't think that's an issue.

And I imagine once an engineer is established enough they care more about being paid on time than on getting the credit. People in the biz can recognize their sound easily enough.

[FossilTooth]

I like peeder's analogy.

Hey, I would do it without issue. I'm happy to share, and I'm ecstatic when others do the same.

[stealthbalance]

How do you feel about stems ? ......would that meet your criteria for future flexibility? I seem to be asked more often for stems from labels, It also provides an easy way for the client to deal with sessions and still have everything broken out if you choose , and for the mixer it keeps the session setup and methodologies ( is that a word ?) private.
thanks
s

[picksail]

Here I am!!!!

..and you are more than welcome to the sessions upon completion. I have nothing to hide. I'd probably never do it the same way twice anyway.

BTW Ronan, great job on those songs.!!! The Head Of Destiny mixes rocked!!! Thanks for the props my brutha!!!

[peeder]

Hmm... This brings up a couple issues. I feel an essay coming on...

[peeder]

And here it is...

[Tony Shepperd]

Thanks for the kind words Aris. See you at Tech Breakfast on Wednesday.
For some time I have a had a policy of not giving most of the clients the sessions.

I had a client who only wanted me to mix 2 songs.
An up-tempo and a ballad.

He then took the mixed sessions, gave them to the second engineer on the project and ask him to "plugin" all of the remaining 8 songs into the mixes I had done.

The second had the decency to call me at least and tell me what they were trying to do.
He thought it was completely unethical (which it is) and thought I should know.

Ever since then, I am extremely careful about what I give out.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Thanks for the kind words Aris. See you at Tech Breakfast on Wednesday.
For some time I have a had a policy of not giving most of the clients the sessions.

I had a client who only wanted me to mix 2 songs.
An up-tempo and a ballad.

He then took the mixed sessions, gave them to the second engineer on the project and ask him to "plugin" all of the remaining 8 songs into the mixes I had done.

The second had the decency to call me at least and tell me what they were trying to do.
He thought it was completely unethical (which it is) and thought I should know.

Ever since then, I am extremely careful about what I give out.

Wow - who can blame you?!?

Good for you, Tony.... stick to your guns. You're the man, and screw all these people who want to screw you over.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by rcm

I am an analog console guy so I can't help you out,......(snip)....

Tony Shepperd's post really got me thinking....

You know, you COULD help them out...

if the poster decided to actually let a hired mixer do his or her thing.... and actually sign off on a song or project, and actually have the cojones to finish a work of art... and not want the ability to mess with something... on and on and on.....

the poster could hire you, (or any good mixer) ....you could do your thing, maybe do a vocal up mix and a vocal down mix, then it goes to mastering, and it is DONE.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by chocolate music

.....(snip)..... we have 2 songs which we would like to have mixed top notch.
the style is modern pop/rock and it would be payed well.
the only condition would be that I would like to have the Pro Tools Session......

Ok so you want a mixer to ONLY use stock Digi plugins, and you want to be "top notch"?

um........ in my opinion, i'm not sure this is possibe.

Or do you own every plugin out there?

[1979]

I wonder what happened to the second engineer who Tony spoke of. Sounds like he was totally good guy who may have lost his job because he did the right thing.

I think this is a cool thread, and it brings up a lot concerns about the 'biz' of passing your work into the hands of other people. This thread is likely not the place for me to start asking the heavyweights about this aspect of the industry.

Best of Luck in finding a mix engineer.

Cheers

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by 1979

....(snip)....
I think this is a cool thread, and it brings up a lot concerns about the 'biz' of passing your work into the hands of other people.....(snip)....

Yeah, it is a tough issue

i mean, if you hire somebody to bake a wedding cake, do you have a right to the recipe?



although having said that, my clients never have the exact same plugs and hardware... so they couldn't exactly re-create the mix anyway. I always explain this, and sometimes do give the session and all the data back - mostly so I don't need to be responsible for archiving a LOT of data.....

[1979]

Originally Posted by mixerguy

Yeah, it is a tough issue

i mean, if you hire somebody to bake a wedding cake, do you have a right to the recipe?



although having said that, my clients never have the exact same plugs and hardware... so they couldn't exactly re-create the mix anyway. I always explain this, and sometimes do give the session and all the data back - mostly so I don't need to be responsible for archiving a LOT of data.....

This is only one side of the coin. In a case where you render all of the plugs to disk and send them a session with just complete files or stems, the issue is hardly solved. Someone who is less than qualified to to start pushing up faders (like an A&R guy) may get around to messing up your mix. In which case you maybe credited with things you would n't do in a million years.

BTW-I'm not directing this at you Chocolate Music. Just commenting on the other posts.

Mixers and Engineers really ought to have a better 'bill of rights', like copyright, but different.

Cheers

[jhg]

Originally Posted by 1979

This is only one side of the coin. In a case where you render all of the plugs to disk and send them a session with just complete files or stems, the issue is hardly solved. Someone who is less than qualified to to start pushing up faders (like an A&R guy) may get around to messing up your mix. In which case you maybe credited with things you would n't do in a million years.

BTW-I'm not directing this at you Chocolate Music. Just commenting on the other posts.

Mixers and Engineers really ought to have a better 'bill of rights', like copyright, but different.

Cheers

Kudos and huzzahs to that! Especially the ultimate statement. Could it include mastering?

[Tony Shepperd]

I have believed for quite some time now that my mixes are my Intellectual Property.
It's been very difficult (when you mix completely ITB) to not have unscrupulous clients rip you off.
Or even worse, label heads who think they will just tweak my mix and avoid an additional fee.

For the past year I have been trying to combat this by restructuring my fees and my mixes.
I have two tiers of pricing. Major Label and Indy Label fees.
As a general rule, if you want the mixes back you have to pay the Major Label fee.

Most of the time the Indy guys just want their stuff mixed.
They don't care about having everything back like the Majors do.

I have also been speaking with Steve Massey about creating a program called Time Bomb.
You could drop your session on the app or plugin in and it would encrypt your mix.
The only way to get to it, is to have you give them the code.

I don't know if he would do it, but as things are getting worse (in many ways in the industry), somethings gotta give.