Problems: Tracking with Solo 610

[Bobbob]

Hi all,

Needs some advice guys: Have been tracking using only a U89 - Solo 610 - 1176ln into Lynx Two-C. I feel like i'm running into problems with my mixes getting too cloggy and murky. Now i assuming that, although the solo 610 is a nice pre, its not advisable to use it for everything in the mix - which is probably why i'm running into problems.

Have done a lot of research and, although maybe predictably, i'm chosing between Ams Neve 1073dpa or a lunch box with 2 Api 512s in it.

Will i notice a big difference when i purchase these? Have included the Mp3 so you can hear the problems. Feel free to be totally honest - any comments are welcome. The problem could be my mixing for all i know. The stuff is my own material and is being released through a label - hence my worry and concerns!!!

Thanks

[Zwinter]

I would say to go for the API. I think the Neve modules will be a little too similar to the 610. So you will continue to struggle with the low and low-mid definition. The API, however, should compliment the 610 nicely.

[AMIEL]

Cool song! have a retro vibe!

[Stoneroses6300]

This was recorded very well, but I sort of know what you mean. There wouldn't be much I would change. I would absolutely keep the acoustic and vocals through the 610. The acoustic sounds great. Where I would switch the chain is for the layering you do in the chorus. I think I hear a banjo there? I think that could of sounded a little more open and less "muddy" and on the instrumental part I could see the banjo cutting through the mix it a bit more. I don't know if eq may be able to solve that?

Listening back that's the only thing I would have any deal with, but I also love this type of sound and song in general...

[bcgood]

Have you considered using an outboard eq to cut lower frequencies? I've been doing this with an outboard tube eq that I have and I'm really happy with the results.This can change the sound of each individual track quite a bit.

Also, you can run the levels lower with the 610 which gives you less tube character and then boost or even normalize the level within your recording program.

Cool song overall, some minor timing issues here and there and I miss some sort of drums whether a kit or just shakers or congas but that's just me, having some sort of percussion in a song like that would make it more interesting...

bcgood

[uncle duncan]

Nomad Blue Tubes bundle has a plug called PEQ2, which is a 3 band eq with a compressor on the mid band. If you selected a low mid setting, like 500 or 700 and compress that, it would suck the mud out of the banjo without making it tinny.
As far as the mix goes, I think you're losing intimacy by doubling the vocal hard left and right. What if you stuck one vocal in the middle, and when the chorus hits, you add hard left and right harmony parts? Could just be one part doubled. I really like it when the chorus blooms out really big, after a small sounding verse.
Nice tune. A shaker would add a lot. It sounds like there's a hint of a drum on the left near the end?

[xj32]

Be carefull you really have something nice going there. I think a person should be able to use only one pre and create great albums.

The 610 (style) has been used to create whole albums which are classics, and you capture that vibe nicely.

I also would get a good outboard EQ or some good software ones before I would grab another pre.

Paul

[Sizzleboy]

Did you use the 610's low cut switch on the vocals?

I think it sounds great, except for a little too much low end on the vox. Could be cured with a low shelf or even just backing off the mic a bit. I also find with the 89 that you can angle it so the top is a bit more toward the source to get more highs and less lows. I think you're doing just fine with that 610.

[CorkyTart]

My guess is that it has little to do with the pre amp but the vox verb doubling kinda thing. Cool tune....

[gracejames]

This sounds really good. Its about the song and vibe too. Excellent.
You don't 'need' to get another mic-pre. Just a bit of EQ on
the vocals as everyone is saying. Whatever you are doing with
the songwriting, keep that going. If you are going to buy another
mic-pre, then i would consider Vintech/GR/Pacifica as was shown in a recent
shootout. Check out the vocals on those samples. Is that what you are
looking for?

[haryy]

You have some classic sound there mate,carefull not to destroy that.
Lots of people in here would want their songs sound like it.
Just play with eq and you'll get where you want.I really like the sound,it compliments the song's mood.

[AdHawk]

Thanks Bobbob!
I really enjoyed the song.
Don´t worry about your pre´s - vibe is everything and you got that right!


JK

[AdHawk]

Originally Posted by Bobbob

Hi all,


Will i notice a big difference when i purchase these? Have included the Mp3 so you can hear the problems.

Thanks

You don´t need a difference because you really have no problem...

A zither-player on weed and some more falsetto vocals will send the tune to heaven.

Just put my mediaplayer on repeat...

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Bobbob

I feel like i'm running into problems with my mixes getting too cloggy and murky.

man, i've been TRYING to get my mixes more cloggy and murky for EVER...

you HAVE to show me how you do it......

....

[loaf]

I think there's a good recording in there somewhere - I hear a lot of reverb increasing the bass, and yes a too tubey thing going on - in fact I hear distortion. I like the arrangement and the playing. Maybe a dav bg1 would help with the sort of thing you're doing, to complement the 610 I mean

[AllBread]

You made a MP3 sounds like Vinyl, what's the problem?

Sounds a bit like Pink Floyd's "Childhoods End".


I was about to sell my 610 . . .maybe I'll just learn how to use it instead.

[rwhitney]

One of the reasons I like Daking pres is that tracks have character but retain clarity.

[R3k]

I love the muted tunes to your recording. Feels somehow vintage and intimate. Sure, you could pull a little more clarity in on certain instruments / bvox if you wish, but hey, IMO, it is perfectly fine as it is (with a couple final touch ups of course) Modern style 'clairity' could possibly even detract from the vibe methinks. Vibe is important.

Beautiful track.

[Recycled_Brains]

i wouldn't change a thing. VERY nice vibe. lots of character in the sounds. the vocals have that Elliot Smith thing happening that's really cool. a little mud never hurt no one.

keep up the good work.

-ryan

[UPRYZ]

great tune. great performances. great sound. You DONT need a different preamp. If you feel like its too "murky" i'd reach for the eq before swapping the pre. It sounds Cohesive.

Dan Fox

[Watersound]

Originally Posted by bcgood

Cool song overall, some minor timing issues here and there and I miss some sort of drums whether a kit or just shakers or congas but that's just me, having some sort of percussion in a song like that would make it more interesting...

bcgood

Some shakers/percussion I think would be awesome, but it's your tune and you will decide what is right for it. With that said I really think it is quite good, velvety and warm- very cool song. If you were looking for a good reaction I think you got it

[bcgood]

It's Saturday and I've got some time on my hands so....

I first imported your track into Nuendo and did some quantizing to tighten it up a bit. I didn't do any other digital manipulation, no plug ins at all.

I ran the little 160 kbps mp3 through my outboard equipment, (Including the tube eq I mentioned) and then to analogue tape. I then recorded it back into the digital world. Here's a very short wave sample so you can hear it. I think this may have the less mud more sparkle thingy going on you might have been looking for, who knows. It was fun and the more I listened to this track the more I liked it...

bcgood

[haryy]

I don't think you made it better,just different.In fact it lost it's big bottom a bit (i level matched them).A small improvement in the Sses but compromised the overall depth.
It doesn't need anything other than a bit of eq in the vocals' Sses on their channel.

[scuzzywuzzy]

I have run into similar problems with a 6176. It's not neccesarily about the EQ, but the 610 pre just gives a colouration that doesn't lend itself to certain tasks. I find it's great for a big thick lead vocal sound, and then i try to use a different cleaner pre for BVs or it just gets too muddy. Great for bass too tho!

[van Overhalen]

There's too much low end rumble going on the guitar that is panned to the left afaik.
Fix it with an EQ and you're fine.
Great music !

[bcgood]

Heres a longer sample encoded as a 192 kbps mp3. This is just to show what I was talking about as far as using the outboard tube eq to lower mud and such. The tape also gives it a little more of that vintage vibe the recording/song already has going for it.

bcgood

[Bobbob]

Thanks everyone for your replies!! Was really shocked this morning when i saw the positive comments.
Especially bcgood!! Really liked what you did and it opened my ears to many new things. Having your opinions has been a really great experience and has given me a lot more confidence in trusting my ears, which i was lacking.

I'm going to take your advice and look for a good quality outboard stereo Eq. Caught my attention so far is the Neve 8803, Buzz Audio MPE 1.1, Portico 5033 x2

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Also can't find any info on the Neve 8803, has anyone had any experience with it?

Thanks again guys!!

[andrew269]

why not get that lunchbox and throw a 550 in it?

[CassidyGT]

Wow - I was thinking the same thing! Great tune going here - as others have said I think a little EQ to cut a bit of bass build up might be all this needs.

QUOTE=AllBread;1183976]You made a MP3 sounds like Vinyl, what's the problem?

Sounds a bit like Pink Floyd's "Childhoods End".[/QUOTE]

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Bobbob

Thanks everyone for your replies!! Was really shocked this morning when i saw the positive comments.
Especially bcgood!! Really liked what you did and it opened my ears to many new things. Having your opinions has been a really great experience and has given me a lot more confidence in trusting my ears, which i was lacking.

I'm going to take your advice and look for a good quality outboard stereo Eq. Caught my attention so far is the Neve 8803, Buzz Audio MPE 1.1, Portico 5033 x2

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Also can't find any info on the Neve 8803, has anyone had any experience with it?

Thanks again guys!!

Cool glad you liked it Bob! Let me know when and if you're playing in Northern California as I like to support independent music.

bcgood