Golden Age hip-hop scratching

[ttauri]

When, say, DJ Scratch or Pete Rock or somebody laid down a little turntable science (back in the days when scratching hooks and such was more common) did it typically see any outboard processing? If so, what sort, and when (during tracking or/and during mixdown)?

Just something I was wondering about while listening to some Magic Mike...

Peece,
T. Tauri

[jazzius II]

maybe a touch of compression and a hi-pass.......but for a raw sound, maybe nothing

[toledo3]

Originally posted by ttauri
When, say, DJ Scratch or Pete Rock or somebody laid down a little turntable science (back in the days when scratching hooks and such was more common) did it typically see any outboard processing? If so, what sort, and when (during tracking or/and during mixdown)?

Just something I was wondering about while listening to some Magic Mike...

Peece,
T. Tauri

I have seen old school dj's use a myriad of fx, including phase/flanging, slap-back-delay, and wah wah.

[ttauri]

Originally posted by toledo3
I have seen old school dj's use a myriad of fx, including phase/flanging, slap-back-delay, and wah wah.

Interesting. Like: heavy mangling, or more like adding a touch for some sweetening (I'm presuming more on the mangling end of things)?

Peece,
T. Tauri

[toledo3]

Originally posted by ttauri
Interesting. Like: heavy mangling, or more like adding a touch for some sweetening (I'm presuming more on the mangling end of things)?

Peece,
T. Tauri

More towards the mangling. Also, I forgot about harmonizers/pitch shifters.

[mikedaul]

here's a newbish question: what's the easiest way to do scratch-like effects in-the-box (without access to proper turntables and the like).

Thanks fo' any help...

[ttauri]

Originally posted by mikedaul
here's a newbish question: what's the easiest way to do scratch-like effects in-the-box (without access to proper turntables and the like).

Thanks fo' any help...

Serato Scratch is one program/plug I know about that allows mouse-based manipulation. Haven't heard it myself, though. Perhaps Traktor does too.

The kvr-vst.com forums might be a place to ask.

Anyone here used 'em? More than scrubbing the audio, I wonder how one'd emulate moving the crossfader with the kind of precision (and SPEED!) that a real crossfader involves.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[strauss]

You might want to try out Serato Scratch and Final Scratch .
With these systems you can scratch audio files using real vinyl!
Serato is also a Protools plugin so if your on that platform it might be a interesting production tool. As long as you don't do the ultra complex cuts, they do VERY nice!
It takes years of practice though before you can put some decent scratches down...


btw check out Dilated People's "Triple Optics" for some nice cuts in a song.


oh, and those mouse scratches are cheesy IMNSHO!

[mikedaul]

Serato look awesome and I've known about Final Scratch for a long while (don't really want to get involved with all the hardware for it). So are there any non-pro tools options out there?

[excellrec]

fruity loops comes with a scratcher, you can make one with reaktor. Personally i don't like them (maybe because i have an 8ms delay on my d/a grudge ) but when i feel the urge i assign the ribbon slide on my keyboard to the plug-in and try to break it down.

[entropy]

Final Scratch is the bomb! Don't know what ALL the hardware mikedaul is referring to, there's just the FS amp which you just connect your dex and usb to, anyways, for me a much more realistic thing to manipulate than say cdj1000. yes i know, it's mp3 but if you're looking at making your own plates to do cuts with, it rocks.

As for processing, i don't think there was too much back in the day other the occasional flange/phase/delay. Obviously everyone's at it now, MM Mike with his wah, Kaoss pad's everywhere and a lot of mixers coming with (wack) fx.

Agree w/ Strauss on Babu's cuts on that Dilated track (which is actually called "live on stage"), in fact there's great cuts all over the album. Dilated Junkies track is dope as well

[e-cue]

I use my CDJ1000 for that kinda stuff. I've cheated in the past and used the SCRUB wheel, recorded it to a dat and bounced it back and tweeked it as needed with vari-fi, speed, or serato as needed- always sounded cheezy but my clients dug it. My DJ skills suck compared to most real dj's, but with the CDJ, I can eff around with it till I get the right pass and never worry about effing up hardware equipment. It's also pretty schweet to be able to crank the mains and not worry about bleed (and rarely feedback) into the needle.

I'm sure the Scratch programs do a great job of doing that stuff with MP3's too. Curious Entrophy, what makes them better than the CDJ for you?

Also, Babu is the greatest DJ in the world.

[mikedaul]

all that hardware I 'taint got is the dex and shite, yo

seriously tho, thanks for all the info.

[entropy]

E-Cue. I'm far from being a DJ but have always had a set of 1200's. My only moan on the CDJ (which I do think is excellent anyway) is that the platter is just too light. Proper cut up DJ friends of mine use Final Scratch over CDJ for studio cuts just because it's a little faster in response, it's not something I notice.......

But considering the CDJ1000 is the first generation, it's pretty damn good. Give it a couple of years and it'll be rock solid

[e-cue]

Originally posted by entropy
E-Cue. I'm far from being a DJ but have always had a set of 1200's. My only moan on the CDJ (which I do think is excellent anyway) is that the platter is just too light. Proper cut up DJ friends of mine use Final Scratch over CDJ for studio cuts just because it's a little faster in response, it's not something I notice.......

But considering the CDJ1000 is the first generation, it's pretty damn good. Give it a couple of years and it'll be rock solid

Of course. The 1200's are always the way to go, but in terms of being about to scratch something you recorded seconds eariler, the CDJ when it came out (I was 1st in line after seeing a beta version) it opened up a new range of production possibilities.

I wish there was a tension control for the CDj platter too sometimes. The speed controls allow me to adjust it were I don't sound like a total suckass.

[Curve Dominant]

here's a newbish question: what's the easiest way to do scratch-like effects in-the-box (without access to proper turntables and the like).

Since you say "in-the-box" I assume you're using a DAW with some decent editing capabilities; if so, you can do some cool shit in that regard.

1) Bounce to disk a region of audio you want to "scratch."
2) Re-import that stereo file into the mix.
3) Line up the "hit" with the beat.
4) Copy it, paste it before the beat, reverse it (with your Reverse plugin of choice), and line up the end of the swell to the beginning of the attack of the original, at the beat. (Or vice-versa.)
5) Slow down the first hit, and speed up the second hit (or vice-versa).
6) Use your imagination to explore any variety of improvisations on those examples.

The important thing with scratching, whether it's a DJ or someone like ourselves doing it in a DAW, is that it's done in the groove. This is where folks go wrong with samples and programs. The samples are not played to the groove, and the programs have no real sense of groove.

A soulful DJ knows how to groove on the scratching tip. A soulful producer knows how to emulate that "in the box."

What I want to know is: Which of you folks are using CD-turntables, and scratching on those? I don't have one yet, but I've seen and heard them in action...mmm.

[entropy]

I totally agree about the immediacy of grabbing something you just recorded to use for cuts, even for non-dj's like ourselves, it was only a couple of years ago that I'd have to and get in line at a cutting plant for a plate. That's £40 please...

Ain't technology great?

[ttauri]

Originally posted by entropy
As for processing, i don't think there was too much back in the day other the occasional flange/phase/delay. Obviously everyone's at it now, MM Mike with his wah, Kaoss pad's everywhere and a lot of mixers coming with (wack) fx.

I was mostly wondering whether they were being run through a compressor, say, for the timbral sweetening, or just r-a-w to and from the board.

Agree w/ Strauss on Babu's cuts on that Dilated track (which is actually called "live on stage")

Is this a different track than the one I'm aware of (titled Triple Optics, off the Work the Angles 12")?

On the Babu tip, I highly recommend an old mixtape he and Kan Kick did called Warped Mind/Comprehension. Bunch of beats, collages, routines, and other meanderings. Got a real great vibe and flow.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[mikedaul]

Curve - thanks for the excellent suggestions. I'll start playing around with that for sure.

[strauss]

Originally posted by ttauri

Is this a different track than the one I'm aware of (titled Triple Optics, off the Work the Angles 12")?

Peece,
T. Tauri

I actually meant the 'work the angles' song when I sad 'triple optics'. The cuts on that song are done by DJ Revolution. Babu did the cuts on the remix version. Revolution's fit better with the track IMO.

[e-cue]

I just mixed a track with Alchemist (he did a 'wicked awesome' job, as the kids say these days) and rolled off the lows with a little bump at 200 hertz post compressor with fast attack and release times. PM me an email if you wanna check it out.

[strauss]

Originally posted by e-cue
I just mixed a track with Alchemist (he did a 'wicked awesome' job, as the kids say these days) and rolled off the lows with a little bump at 200 hertz post compressor with fast attack and release times. PM me an email if you wanna check it out.

Your PM box is full!

[ttauri]

Originally posted by strauss
I actually meant the 'work the angles' song when I sad 'triple optics'. The cuts on that song are done by DJ Revolution. Babu did the cuts on the remix version. Revolution's fit better with the track IMO.

Yeah. Good stuff. That's the rare kind of joint where you'd really have a hard time thinking of the song without thinking of the cuttin'.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[e-cue]

Originally posted by strauss
Your PM box is full!

Should be clear now. I had lots of requests, sorry.