Recording vocals in a project room

[PJB5060]

I work in a one room project studio and record mainly vocals along side my equipment. Once a compressor is slapped on the vocal chain there is a nice floor.
As of yet I have no portable acoustic noise suppression panels and I don't want to build a booth.... I like the intimacy of recording a performance 3 feet away from my desk.
My gear is generally quiet and it would be a pain to relocate so forget that.
I don't expect miracles but perhaps there are ready made acoustic panels or the like that are effective here. My room is a little live so something that would suppress this around the mic would also be of use.

Anyone else got this dilemma and how have you solved it?

[h2000]

Get some Owens Corning 704 rigid fiberglass and make some panels by covering them with fabric. That will deaden it down nicely. Do a search on here, there is a ton of info.

[PJB5060]

Make that noise floor.

[dropblacksky]

If you're not into DIY, check out the se reflextion filter or the similar product by real traps...just google em. Certainly more expensive than doing it yourself, but I'm sure they are quality made and work well.

[Fruition2k]

I've used an RE20, gets rid of many room issues.
Its designed that with that in mind, great on many other sources too...

[Kroy]

The Reflexion Filter is a real nice product. There's a long thread somewhere where the first posters were cynical but by the end of the thread people who'd got to try it were very complimentary. I have one and I'm pleased with the results.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by PJB5060

I work in a one room project studio and record mainly vocals along side my equipment. Once a compressor is slapped on the vocal chain there is a nice floor.
As of yet I have no portable acoustic noise suppression panels and I don't want to build a booth.... I like the intimacy of recording a performance 3 feet away from my desk.
My gear is generally quiet and it would be a pain to relocate so forget that.
I don't expect miracles but perhaps there are ready made acoustic panels or the like that are effective here. My room is a little live so something that would suppress this around the mic would also be of use.

Anyone else got this dilemma and how have you solved it?

First start by treating the room and then focus on a part of the room to cut the vocals and then treat that area. You may want to post a diagram and or pictures of your room to see what you have going on. I cut vocals all the time in my control room and they come out pretty nice.

Glenn

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by dropblacksky

If you're not into DIY, check out the se reflextion filter or the similar product by real traps...just google em. Certainly more expensive than doing it yourself, but I'm sure they are quality made and work well.

Originally Posted by Kroy

The Reflexion Filter is a real nice product. There's a long thread somewhere where the first posters were cynical but by the end of the thread people who'd got to try it were very complimentary. I have one and I'm pleased with the results.

I think all these products are pretty nice and will help, but you really still need to treat the room.

Glenn

[BezowinZ]

Originally Posted by Fruition2k

I've used an RE20, gets rid of many room issues.
Its designed that with that in mind, great on many other sources too...

I'm in the market for a dynamic mic for vocals for the same reason. The RE20 is billed as a voice over mic. Would you recommend it for rock, r&b and/or rap vocals... male and/or female?

[chandlersonic]

The SM7 is great for just this, I'd go for it over the re20 anyday but then that's just me.
A lot of metal singers I work with don't want to wear headphones and wanna hear the music LOUD, VERY LOUD. I record them in front of a PA and use an sm7, that mic really is awesome, picks up what's in front of it and that's about it.

I've tried the reflexion filter, you might want to consider it, it's definitely worth it.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by PJB5060

perhaps there are ready made acoustic panels or the like that are effective here.

Look here:

RealTraps - Portable Vocal Booth

--Ethan

[Fruition2k]

Originally Posted by BezowinZ

I'm in the market for a dynamic mic for vocals for the same reason. The RE20 is billed as a voice over mic. Would you recommend it for rock, r&b and/or rap vocals... male and/or female?

No doubt the SM7b is also another option and similar, I prefer classic dynamics
over cheap condensers anyday. On top of it they can handle almost any level
right down to a kick drum...which it captures quite well.

[PJB5060]

Thanks all... yes I plan to deal to the acoustics of my room once and for all but after I get that new mic pre.. and that mix buss EQ and what about an Intel mac!!!!
The SE and Real traps products look ideal so will do a bit more research here and go with one of them.

By the way, I've worn out a SM7 over 20 years in my room and it's directional aspect really has limited my noise floor.
I've since moved to a Rhode classic and an Ifet7 which in my view are sonically better
for my application but do pick up the room noise.

Cheers

PJB

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

First start by treating the room and then focus on a part of the room to cut the vocals and then treat that area. You may want to post a diagram and or pictures of your room to see what you have going on. I cut vocals all the time in my control room and they come out pretty nice.

Glenn

How would you do this Glenn? I don't mean the general room treatment, as you guys have already helped me understand what I need to do as far as bass traps, reflection points, rear wall, etc. My concern is what would be ideal as far as a spot in the room to record.

This is a room that will serve as both the recording and mixing room. If the room is treated, is it fine to just record anywhere in the room? Would one of your Screen Panels help with vocal recording in a room that was already solidly treated?

I guess my main question is, what kind of treatment, if any, should be applied specifically for the section of the room where vocals will be recorded? I'm almost getting the feeling that will the room treated well, one could just record vocals anywhere.

Appreciate your insight, as always brotha.

[Ethan Winer]

The goal is to have the performer and microphone away from reflecting surfaces. If you can't be at lest ten feet away then you'll benefit from absorption on those surfaces. It's pretty much that simple.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

[chessparov]

Ethan (along with anyone else), can you typically get good "demo level" vocal tracks using something like a SM7? With Paul White's (Sound On Sound) advice of using duvet(s) behind the singer?

I've tried/listened to LDC recordings done like this, but am fussy about their results.

FWIW for any intended commercial release vocals would certainly follow Ethan's and Glenn's expert guidance.

Chris

[AnthonyRochester]

Originally Posted by PJB5060

Thanks all... yes I plan to deal to the acoustics of my room once and for all but after I get that new mic pre.. and that mix buss EQ and what about an Intel mac!!!!

treating your room will make a bigger difference than getting a new preamp or anything like that, and it doesn't have to cost a lot..

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

The goal is to have the performer and microphone away from reflecting surfaces. If you can't be at lest ten feet away then you'll benefit from absorption on those surfaces. It's pretty much that simple.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

But I mean, assuming you have bass traps, an RFZ and absorption well-placed in the room (11x12x8), is it fine to just record, say, in the middle of the room? Would there be any additional benefit if one were to use a portable vocal booth directly behind the mic, or would the room treatment be fine? Also, would the answer to that question be different for a condenser mic versus an SM7B?

[Tom Higgins]

Originally Posted by beebay007

treating your room will make a bigger difference than getting a new preamp or anything like that, and it doesn't have to cost a lot..

I also want to treat my room, however can i use a limited amount of treatment. i.e. could i get some foam panels to cover the first reflections?? or would i have to go with the full works (i.e. quite a lot of tiles and bass traps too) for it to be effective?

Thanks

Tom

[sparqee]

Originally Posted by beebay007

treating your room will make a bigger difference than getting a new preamp or anything like that, and it doesn't have to cost a lot..

Absolutely true (unless your room already sounds good). Making your own acoustic panels really isn't that tough. A lot of hardware stores will cut the frame pieces to the size you want and then all you need is a drill, wood screws and the cover fabric (and the fiberglass of course). In a pinch you could even just glue the wood frame and skip the wood screws. The fiberglass doesn't weigh much and if you leave then hanging on the wall then good wood glue should be enough to keep the frame together.

Acoustic treatment isn't fun or glamorous but if you're recording with an LDC in an untreated room it will improve your recordings way more than any "after the fact" gadget or software.
thumbsup

[doubledecker]

Just get SE Reflexion filter and be done with it.
It's perfect for recording vocals and it's cheap, easy and portable.

[Tom Higgins]

Thanks for the reply.

The room doesn't sound bad - no real reverb but still live enough, which i like - otherwise it seems a bit too dry..

The treatment would be for when monitoring. I ran my own acoustics test and it didn't seem too bad.. A few peaks in the low end (so i guess i might need bass traps?) and a few inconsistencies higher up.. (and so, a group of well-placed tiles around the room might even that out???)

However, I'm thinking about getting some HS50Ms so the bass shouldn't be too much of a problem. Do you know how well their room correction and eq works on the back?

[AnthonyRochester]

Bass traps are easy to make (check out the sub-forum in the acoustics section of gearslutz) and are extremely important and make a huge difference in making the low frequency response of your room tame and even, so that you can trust what is coming out of your monitors rather than just guess. This applies no matter how expensive your monitors are.

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by Fruition2k

I've used an RE20, gets rid of many room issues.
Its designed that with that in mind, great on many other sources too...

Originally Posted by BezowinZ

I'm in the market for a dynamic mic for vocals for the same reason. The RE20 is billed as a voice over mic. Would you recommend it for rock, r&b and/or rap vocals... male and/or female?

The RE20 is my go-to vocal mic when recording a whole band in the same room.
Aim it away from other sources, work it close and dampen the area behind the singer.
Piece of cake.

[mattg082]

This is why I swaped out a re20 for a sm7. I have a small booth space between my bathroom that fits one person with a heavy drape that makes it a small booth. I use to spend 20min diy stuffing it but the sm7 simplified it. However the other day I had one of the best vox tracks done in my tracking room that nothing else is touching....I've been scratching my head about this one.

[Tom Higgins]

Originally Posted by mattg082

....I've been scratching my head about this one.

I guess sometimes vocals sound a lot nicer and more natural in a fairly live room?

[Hashbrown]

Maybe post a clip of the clean vocal only, and a clip of the compressed vocal?

Sometimes the solution eludes due to a different problem than thought.

I've also had problems with the noise floor of vocals after compressing them to hell and back. What i usually find, is that when you are compressing a vocal to smithereens, it's usually for a loud noisy track anyway, in which case you don't even hear the noise floor after drums and guitars come in.

Sometimes you might be compressing too much, and then even if you're in a pro studio, the compressor itself will add more noise than you would think (depending on the comp).

Making recordings in various places other than studios, i've come to live with these artefacts. I consider all of it just adding a kind of 'air' to my stuff

I listened to some Hendrix the other day and the noise floor on that stuff is crazy (might have been the re-issue though, i haven't heard that album on vinyl), but after the first 5 seconds, you forget it's there...

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

But I mean, assuming you have bass traps, an RFZ and absorption well-placed in the room (11x12x8), is it fine to just record, say, in the middle of the room? Would there be any additional benefit if one were to use a portable vocal booth directly behind the mic, or would the room treatment be fine? Also, would the answer to that question be different for a condenser mic versus an SM7B?

IME the best treated control rooms it helps to have something around the mic area to cut down on reflections. You would need to experiment to see which gives you the best sound. As Ethan said though start by being as far from any reflective area as possible.

Here is a video a client sent us, recording in a control room

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

IME the best treated control rooms it helps to have something around the mic area to cut down on reflections. You would need to experiment to see which gives you the best sound. As Ethan said though start by being as far from any reflective area as possible.

Here is a video a client sent us, recording in a control room

Indeed, I've seen this video. was actually watching it a few days ago.

I guess my big concern is whether a screen panel around the mic will be worth it for the present time, since I'm using an SM7B. I'm thinking I'll definitely wanna pick up a Screen Panel when I start using a condenser, but is this going to make enough difference with the SM7B to warrant spending that amount of money?

I'm also confused about the specific reflective area to avoid. I will have the rear wall, corners and reflection points covered, but nothing more. This means, behind the mixing point on the side walls, those walls will be bare. The ceiling will be pretty bare besides the reflection point. Is there a spot that you'd consider to be far from the worst reflections in a room treated in this fashion? Trial and error? I'm fine with trial and error, but thought I'd try to gain some insight, in the event anyone was willing to share.

[Tom Higgins]

You could treat a corner of your room (bass trap of two and some panels) and have your back to the wall then have a reflexion filter behind the mic.. so reflections should be pretty well absorbed..

Does anyone know how much difference getting the nice sE reflexion filter is to a cheaper one, like Primacoustic's one?

Point taken though.. i'd agree that acoustics is probably more important when using a condensor