Tascam DM24

[faeflora]

Has anyone used a Tascam DM24? How's the usability? Is the conversion decent?

[Albert]

I have a couple DM-24's that are cascaded. They are certainly very useable, the user interface is pretty easy to get a grip on, and the conversion sounds good. Not great like my Benchmark DAC1, but very good.

The signal routing is in general very flexible, although the main caveat is that when you are using the three banks of TDIF you can't also use the bank of ADAT at the same time. In that scenario you have to fill the last bank with the analog mic/line inputs, the four assignable inputs or the two SPDIF or AES inputs. In most cases, not a big deal.

I use my DM-24's with my DAW, Digital Performer. The DM-24's are connected to two MOTU 2408mkII's via the TDIF cables. That gives me 48 channels of I/O between the mixers and DP. The mixers basically become a hardware extension of DP, and I find the setup quite flexible and easy to use.

The recall is very easy to use and the mixers reset to a saved program essentially instantaneously.

It's also very affordably priced, and is a good value for the money in my opinion. There are a lot of I/O options built in standard from the factory which is also a plus.

[faeflora]

Thanks for the info Albert. How many channels of analog outputs can you have? Also, regarding the MOTU 2408, can you use it to get additional analog I/O without using a computer?

Thanks much! I'm looking at getting one for live sound and I'd like to do monitoring on the same console as front of house. I'd need a lot of analog outputs and the ability to do at least 4 submixes.

[fifthcircle]

I think the DM 24 is a relatively decent sounding digital console, but it is a royal pain in the a$$ to use. It is very flexible, but things are not where you would think they should be.

Also, the trim pot on the mic pres is crappy- you get more of your gain at the last little bit than what you experience before... You go from nothing to clipping with them quite easily. I understand there is a mod available, though, that fixes that problem...

--Ben

[Albert]

I'm not sure about the submix thing, I use mine as a studio board and am not nearly as familiar with live sound as studio.

The trim pots are a little dangerous unless you get the upgrade. At around 3 o'clock on the trim pot there is a jump in level of about 6dB that's like a switch. It will get you every time, instant distortion in most cases. So the trim upgrade for something like $200 would be *well* worth it for live use.

You can add analog I/O in a couple ways. Tascam sells analog expansion cards. You could add an expansion board for 8 more channels of I/O. Built in there is of course the main stereo outs, and four assignable sends. There's also control room and tape outs. I've added an analog expansion board which I use as buss outs (and another 8 analog inputs).

I need you to explain in more detail how you would need to do your submixes, and then maybe I can check and see if it is possible on my boards.

[faeflora]

For the submixes, I'd like to send varying levels from analog input channels to 4-5 mono outputs.

Kinda like this:

ANALOG INPUT LAYOUT:
Input 1 Vocal
Input 2 Guitar A
Input 3 Guitar B
Input 4 Bass
Input 5 Kick
Input 6 Snare
Input 7 Drum OHL
Input 8 Drum OHR
Input 8 Keys

ANALOG OUTPUT LAYOUT:

Stereo FOH mix

Monitor Mix:
SUBMIX 1 to Mono Output 1
10% of "max level" Vocal
40% of Bass
90% of Kick
90% of Snare

SUBMIX 2 to Mono Output 2 AND 3
50% Guitar A
40% Guitar B
90% Bass
90% Kick
50% Snare

SUBMIX 3 to Mono Output 4
100% Kick
100% Snare
100% Bass

SUBMIX 4 to Mono Output 5
90% Keys
100% Vocal
50% Snare
50% Kick
50% Drum OHL
50% Drum OHR
60% Bass


Does that make sense? Basically, I need to know if I can use the 4 assignable sends as output busses for the monitor mix.

Thanks!

[fifthcircle]

Sure, you could do that easily using the aux sends. You have 6 of them on this board... The tricky part is using effects. You need to assign an aux to the on board effects or out of the console for an outboard effects box. Then you need to route the returns in on their own channels. 2 effects returns will take up 4 of the 32 total channels you have on this board.


--Ben

[Teacher]

yo ben can the DM24 act as a control surface for samplitude?

[faeflora]

Originally posted by fifthcircle
Sure, you could do that easily using the aux sends. You have 6 of them on this board... The tricky part is using effects. You need to assign an aux to the on board effects or out of the console for an outboard effects box. Then you need to route the returns in on their own channels. 2 effects returns will take up 4 of the 32 total channels you have on this board.


--Ben

With the default configuration (no expansion cards), am I correct that I would have 4 analog aux sends available?

[fifthcircle]

That is correct- there are 4 "Assignable sends and returns" on the front of the console...

--Ben

[Albert]

That 32 channel limitation has been eliminated in the newest version of the OS, 2.1. There are numberous channels that can be fed directly to the stereo mix, bypassing channel strips entirely. You could for example return yoru fx to the four assignable returns and simply assign them to the stereo mix. Likewise, mic/line inputs can be assigned directly to the stereo buss as well.

I get six analog sends on my board very easily. What I did was buy a stereo AD/DA converter and put that on one of the SPDIF I/O's. I then assign fx sends 5-6 to that output. So in this scenario, you could use the first four assignable sends for your submixes, and sends 5 and 6 for fx boxes, returning them to the assignable returns. Or you could use the internal fx on sends 5 and 6. I believe the internal fx can be returned directly to the stereo bus also, but I need to check on that (I never use the internal fx).

[bigbaby987]

I'm also thinking about this mixer because I would love to be able to send like 24 adat channels to the board and mix ITB from there. I maybe fooling myself into thinking there may be some seperation in this mix but I still kinda like this board. I take it that you give it a thumbs up. BTW do you know how well the daw control works.

[Teacher]

Originally posted by bigbaby987
I'm also thinking about this mixer because I would love to be able to send like 24 adat channels to the board and mix ITB from there. I maybe fooling myself into thinking there may be some seperation in this mix but I still kinda like this board. I take it that you give it a thumbs up. BTW do you know how well the daw control works.

from what i've read it can only do 8 adat channels and 24 tdif...

i'm also wondering if the summing of this console would be better then ITB

[fifthcircle]

Originally posted by Teacher
from what i've read it can only do 8 adat channels and 24 tdif...

i'm also wondering if the summing of this console would be better then ITB

Stock it can, but there are 2 card slots in it... You can do 24 channels of digital input at a time...

--Ben

[Buddhaman]

Had a DM24 for a while

the nice thing is ALL of the digital OUTPUTS can be used simultaneously...

so you can have more than 24 digital outputs at a time, if that helps

LeRoy

[rockum]

I have had a DM24 for about 6 weeks and I think it sounds a good bit better than the 01V I replaced, but I find it harder to navigate. I wish it had a video like tascam TDM1000 did.

[Xestenz]

I just bought a DM-24, based in part on the recently announced firewire card (and the free meter bridge offer). This card makes the DM-24 uniquely versatile IMO -- with 24 i/o's to and from my PIV PC running Sonar 3, and the ability to use the DM as a big control surface. I can track to an HD24XR via lightpipe (I prefer the stability and ease of tracking to a M-HDR) dump those tracks into Sonar with the Alesis Fireport, then instantly reconfigure the desk to mix from Sonar, using the DM's EQ and dynamics and automation, with plugins and audio editing from Sonar. Pretty cool, and really nothing else like it out there.

So far I'm please with the sonics (they seem to have gotten the mix buss architecture right), and the EQ's and compressors sound decent. I haven't dived too deep, but first impressions are positive.

It is NOT intuitive to operate, particularly the internal routing scheme (where is the #*!&# signal going again?), and the manual sux. Another positive though is that Tascam has been good about upgrading and adding new functionality, and have seamingly addressed many of the board's early shortcomings.

All in all, I think it will help make you a moist excellent engineer!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by faeflora
Has anyone used a Tascam DM24? How's the usability? Is the conversion decent?

The Tascam DM24 sounds really good.

The sweetspot is a little small but definitely useable.

Navigating at first is a little akward(I think the analog send issue is a little foggy).

You have a lot of access to different cards.

[Albert]

I think you'll find that with a little practice using the board it will become a lot more intuitive. It did take a while for me to get a grip on the internal routing, but now it all seems so easy. The pages that are your friends are the I/O and Assign. Once you get comfortable with those two menus routing gets a lot easier.

[bigbaby987]

anyone know how well the board works as a control surface for logic?

[mantovibe]

Hi Albert.
I have had a DM24 for quite a while too.
Do you remember reading about the headroom issue that was noticed from after V.1.6 back in the days of the Tascam forums? I remember seeing you there a bit.
Anyway, have you ever taken the time to actually check how big of a issue that really is?
Did you notice your DM24 clipping or distorting while your DAW doesn't?
And, do you usually print your mixes out of the Tascam or out of the DAW?
Also.......Nice to see you here and in other forums

Thank you.
Renzo Mantovani

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by Albert
That 32 channel limitation has been eliminated in the newest version of the OS, 2.1. There are numberous channels that can be fed directly to the stereo mix, bypassing channel strips entirely. You could for example return yoru fx to the four assignable returns and simply assign them to the stereo mix. Likewise, mic/line inputs can be assigned directly to the stereo buss as well.

Hey Albert, one quick question... if I'm returning my FX to the digital inputs (AES/EBU), can these be fed directly to the stereo bus without utilizing any of the 32 channels? Would be a Godsend if possible.

FWIW, i've had my DM24 for almost 2 years and really love it for the $$$, but the user interface is the oppositie of "intuitive". Sounds fine but makes me wish I was working on an analog desk every day... but for the price, I should just shut the hell up

[jpaudio]

Nevermind, just answered my own question... this thread just saved me from buying a submixer for FX returns! woohoo!!!

[audiothings]

its going at $1795 (special offer i think) at 'ear'.

http://www.ear.net/dbi/w.shtml

.02,
self.

[LumenStudio]

Does anybody know where I can find out about the free meter bridge offer for this board? I have not found any info.

[Xestenz]

Sorry, free meter bridge offer ended 12/31/03.

[Albert]

Originally posted by mantovibe
Hi Albert.
I have had a DM24 for quite a while too.
Do you remember reading about the headroom issue that was noticed from after V.1.6 back in the days of the Tascam forums? I remember seeing you there a bit.
Anyway, have you ever taken the time to actually check how big of a issue that really is?
Did you notice your DM24 clipping or distorting while your DAW doesn't?
And, do you usually print your mixes out of the Tascam or out of the DAW?
Also.......Nice to see you here and in other forums

Thank you.
Renzo Mantovani

Renzo, sorry to take so long to respond, I'e been really busy lately and lost track of this thread.

I miss the Tascam forums, and I think they made a big mistake by discontinuing them. If they had given us warning we could have at least saved the threads that had the good advice in them. As it is, all that knowledge is now lost.

Regarding the headroom issue, I really haven't had a problem with it. The only time I've come up against clipping is when my brother sends me tracks that he has recorded very hot. As in multiple tracks going up to zero. I cna play those back in DP without clipping, but they will clip the DM-24. But in my opinion they probably *should* clip the DM-24.

As I remember, most DM-24 users who were complaing about the clipping were also the ones using the new routing of version 2. So in addition to the 32 channels and assignable inputs going to the mix buss, they were also adding to that the digital inputs and all 16 mic/line inputs. It gets to the point where you wonder is there something with the board, or are people simply pushing it too hard and then blaming the board.

As I mentioned, the only time the board has clipped for me is when I've seriously pushed it with too hot of a signal.

[rockum]

The Tascam forum is back...

http://www.tascamforums.com/

thumbsup

[Albert]

Hey thanks, that's great news!

[mantovibe]

Indeed..
Albert, thanks.