How would I make programmed drums not sound so good?

[brockf]

I am producing my first solo LP at the moment and I've decided to use EZDrummer for the drums. (I am not using the grooves and am programming each part by hand. Please don't tell me to just record live drums, either .

The drums come out of EZDrummer pre-processed and, therefore, sounding quite good. Unfortunately, the drum sound I am looking for: Bright Eyes, Pedro the Lion, etc. is a lot more lo-fi. Are there any tools or processes that I can use the make the EZDrummer sounds more lo-fi? ie. make that snare more boxy and less sparkley, make the kick warmer, etc.

[Simpleton]

Without knowing the sound of the bands you mentioned, some good ways to trash up drums are to roll off the highs, run through distortion pedals or plugs, tube saturation, bit reduction, or multiband distortion. You could run it out and slam it to a crappy fostex four-track cassette recorder. You could run it out of a PA and mic the PA. You could do any number of combinations of these and more over the whole kit or on individual sounds. Best thing is to experiement!

[brockf]

That tape recorder idea is a great one. I may try and setup a string of plugins and experiment with your other tips too.

Anyone else have experience with this or knowledge of the sound I'm going for?

[firby]

If it is going to be released PM me for custom drum tracks. If it is something that I like I may send you tracks for the songs that I like for a credit on the album.

I don't want to naff up your process but if that works for you.

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by firby

If it is going to be released PM me for custom drum tracks. If it is something that I like I may send you tracks for the songs that I like for a credit on the album.

I don't want to naff up your process but if that works for you.

...or you could teach him and explain what you plan on doing- which is the reason he asked how to do it and not who can do it for him. as the saying goes...."give a man a fish..."

[Sigma]

this is why i left major label engineering...

when cRAP music producers decided bad sounds were good

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

this is why i left major label engineering...

when cRAP music producers decided bad sounds were good

im not sure this 100% applies here... sometimes sequenced drums sound "so good" that it actually sounds out of place and bad. i think hes trying to make the drums sound more convincing than he is trying to make them sound like shit (although i could be wrong). also, crystal clear processed drums don't sound good on every record. sometimes a more organic or lo fi sound serves the song in a positive way. i dont agree that making things sound like crap for the sake of crap is good thing either, but i think its important to understand the context of the work we're talking about.

[brockf]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

this is why i left major label engineering...

when cRAP music producers decided bad sounds were good

First off, I am not a great music producer (I thought I had already implied this and therefore avoided the obvious insults). I am bad enough that pre-processed drums sounds that sound great stick out like a sore thumb amongst guitars, tambourines, trumpets, and shakers that I can't get up to the same quality. THAT's why I need to lo-fi the drums.

Also, are you really saying the music you make on indie labels sounds better than your major label work? (EDIT: Don't answer that here. It's just going to throw off the topic.)

[DontLetMeDrown]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

this is why i left major label engineering...

when cRAP music producers decided bad sounds were good

You've engineered in major productions and never have had an instance where you wanted dirty drums in a song? You produce orchestral work, or what? Gimme a break. Sometimes lo-fi is the way to go.

[BlueRadio]

There are a few things you can do.

1. Play your drum tracks back through speakers in a garage, hallway, bathroom, or wherever the mood strikes you. Throw up TONS OF MICS. I'm talkin sm57s, wollensacks, ribbons of any kind, whatever you can find. Pick and choose what you like...Use these re-recorded tracks in tandem with your "clean" drum tracks. Compression is your friend.

2. Distortion is your friend.

3. Compression is your friend. See above.

4. EQ is your friend. Specifically, low-passing.

[brockf]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

There are a few things you can do.

1. Play your drum tracks back through speakers in a garage, hallway, bathroom, or wherever the mood strikes you. Throw up TONS OF MICS. I'm talkin sm57s, wollensacks, ribbons of any kind, whatever you can find. Pick and choose what you like...Use these re-recorded tracks in tandem with your "clean" drum tracks. Compression is your friend.

2. Distortion is your friend.

3. Compression is your friend. See above.

4. EQ is your friend. Specifically, low-passing.

Mmm, lots of new friends there. Thanks for the great ideas. I think re-micing the drums and running them through my Tascam 4-track and mixing it in are going to really help.

[Methlab]

Keep this in mind..the samples don't sound as good as you think.

What im saying is that I make a track in BFD and it sounds good..but then I mix it , and sometimes kill all the plugins after to hear the difference..well, it sounds a lot different.

To make more raw drums like Pedro the Lion, really you just don't need to process them that much and use the room mics a lot, and not slide in any samples.

The "lo-fi indie" sound is based on just getting the sound at the source and not overmixing it . I dont have EZ drummer, but it should sound like a drum kit that has been recorded in a room with minimim EQ and compression.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown

You've engineered in major productions and never have had an instance where you wanted dirty drums in a song? You produce orchestral work, or what? Gimme a break. Sometimes lo-fi is the way to go.

i did 80's 12 inch dance re mixes [yellowjackets, george benson, germain jackson, 5 star] etc and then moved to mostly album ballads for singers like gerald levert, ojays, teddy pendergrass, patti labelle, stephanie mills, jones girls, phyliss hyman. sheena easton, gladys knight,. teena marie etc..so NO i didn't want dirty sounds..i had a hell of a time tryin to mix bel biv devoe, prob destroyed a Kurrupt mix and had scott storch take over the board and mix his own stuff..so i don't know dirty/ugly and really can't do it..when i mixed R&B thru the 90's i never had a client present till the last hr of work

i did 99% of the string and horn dates at our studio by producer/arranger request and when they wanted the strings overdubbed for "Standing in the Shadow of Motown" they called me

some people can raise dirty to an art form..when i peak an eq to find ugly ..i pull it out..just habit..

and the stuff i do now isn't even indie label stuff..it's young bands with their own budget and rock music and i enjoy it..to me it is like learning to record all over again..it ain't about major or minor leagues it's about busting a nut doing music


i am just learning rock stuff..hey i lucked out being there during the R&B heyday and people liked me..no ego trip here and i always wanna learn new things ..hence why i am here

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by paulnowo

First off, I am not a great music producer (I thought I had already implied this and therefore avoided the obvious insults). I am bad enough that pre-processed drums sounds that sound great stick out like a sore thumb amongst guitars, tambourines, trumpets, and shakers that I can't get up to the same quality. THAT's why I need to lo-fi the drums.

Also, are you really saying the music you make on indie labels sounds better than your major label work? (EDIT: Don't answer that here. It's just going to throw off the topic.)

no slight intended BTW ..it was just my view about machine drums and searching for ugly

[ericwall]

I just tried this myself ITB recently. Had a clean drumloop on a stereotrack (Mads Mikkelsen drumlibrary) and copied it to two more paralell stereotracks:

one smashed with a UAD 1176 and eq and dist,

and one with blockfish and logics enveloper for attack.

These two mults blended with the original.

You can hear it here: www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=106961

Edit: post # 16

More ideas anyone?

[Pasta4lnch]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

1. Play your drum tracks back through speakers in a garage, hallway, bathroom, or wherever the mood strikes you. Throw up TONS OF MICS. I'm talkin sm57s, wollensacks, ribbons of any kind, whatever you can find. Pick and choose what you like...Use these re-recorded tracks in tandem with your "clean" drum tracks. Compression is your friend.

I have a buddy who used to get good results by doing this w/ that mic that looks like a head . . . the binarual sphere I thinkn it's called.

I also have been hired a few times by a band to do kinda like a sound replacement for midi drums. I have great individual samples from discrete drums that have seperate room sounds. IMHO it doesn't come close to the real thing . . . but the band is very happy w/ it.

[bpatural]

Sans Amp is your lofi friend.

-Brian

[u b k]

#1: nothing does lo-fi compression better than a camcorder's built-in mic. turn your monitors up REALLY LOUD, record them with the camera placed well back in the room, maybe even out in the hall.

#2: run your processed loops thru a short room-sounding verb, get them fairly wet, then squash the living piss out of this blend with an aggressively fast, high ratio compressor.

#3: layer it up. every modern producer worth his salt knows that the most effective way to create unique new textues is to creatively blend tired old ones. get on the web and spend an hour searching for free, grungy, lo-fi drum loops. sift thru your treasures and find on or two that layer up over your clean sounds to create the groove that works. odds are the loop will provide lovely grain, texture, and motion, while your ez drummer tracks will provide clarity and punch. mix as needed by the song.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Led]

Plus one for Le Sansamp. On a send. Blend away.

[scrubs]

Is EZ Drummer one of the ones that lets you choose mic configs and stuff? If so, use more of the room mic and use heavy compression and boxy sounding room reverbs on it.

The SSL LMC-1 plugin can really trash up a drum bus, and it's free! Also try the camel crusher distortion plug and the digital fishphones dominion plug.

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Led

Plus one for Le Sansamp. On a send. Blend away.

also give the massey tlc a try.
http://www.masseyplugins.com/index_v...se&product=thc
demo is free, and works for an unlimited time. the only catch is it wont save your settings when you close and reopen your session (unless you buy). the way i've worked around it is if i find a sound i like, i make note of the setting for documentation's sake, and then record the distorted signal to a separate track so i dont need the plugin activated anymore. you can then blend it with the dry track to taste. this plugin can do cool stuff to drums. its not that expensive ($70), so it wouldn't kill you to buy it either.

[treymonfauntre]

best thing i ever figured out with ezdrummer was to run 2 instances of it.. one for the drums and the other for the cymbals. it will seem arbitrary until you do it, though.

[brockf]

Originally Posted by treymonfauntre

best thing i ever figured out with ezdrummer was to run 2 instances of it.. one for the drums and the other for the cymbals. it will seem arbitrary until you do it, though.

Actually, that doesn't seem arbitrary to me at all. I notice that the amount of overheads required for nice hats/symbols seems to make the kick and snare sit really far back in the mix. That's a good idea but I'm not sure if I could run it on this system.

[will_ie_2000]

Lots of great advice. Another thing i like to do is mix down the drums, and play them back into a nice (whatever that may be for you and your material) room, record it, and replace your ambients from ezdrummer with this. The rooms tend to be a bit too "nice" for me in ezdrummer so this helps it to sit a bit better at times. Sometimes bass etc goes this way too. Gives a little more glue to the groove.

[TBlizz]

For dirtying up any kind of drums (and if you're on PC) try the Compadre & Sonitex Bundle.

Instant character!

[toolskid]

touch an sm57 to the cone of an ns10

run drums thru and record

brighten

thats just one idea on lofi-ing drums

[dim light]

Here is what I would try:

I would put all close mics on seperate tracks - kick, snare, toms, hihat, cymbals. Then I would retrigger the snare and kick, maybe the toms with drumagog and match the sound you are after. Then I would remove the snare, kick hits from ezdrummer and load SIR (Impulse verb) and try to match the ezdrummer room. Then you can EQ the room on ez and cut some of the highs etc and have the right sound to the most important sounds - like the snare and kick...

Also play around with drumagog - trigger other sounds under the snare to get that chubby unique sound your after.

It can be done - start with ezdrummer and recreate the drum track step by step adding new elements. Ezdrummer is great for getting started with a demo/song. I really like ezdrummer. You should check out the Vintage add-on. The kick and snare is much more comfy and right for acoustic/lofi pop.

Hope this help! Have fun bro.

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by paulnowo

I am producing my first solo LP at the moment and I've decided to use EZDrummer for the drums. (I am not using the grooves and am programming each part by hand. Please don't tell me to just record live drums, either .

How about instead of programming the drums, why not play them in with a keyboard or some drumpads? This way you get different velocities and timing wich makes it sound less robotic and more real and humanic!

That said, i like all the lofi,recording to tape and micing ideas, wich are a case of experimenting and finding the sound you're after.

[Long_Shaded_Eye]

Pedro the Lion = GREAT GREAT Band

Now peraps you can sample drums on some of these cds. Blend the different layer. Peraps play with tape ... also try to play it in you room and record it again with strange mic placement (XY anywhere in the room).

Pedro the Lion drums (I remeber Option) got a lot of verb also.
Experiment.
Peraps try to use "not so well" cutted sample ... so the drums will float a (very) little bit ... can humanize the thing.


Hope it'll help you.
Good luck.

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

Hi. Big fan of that sound too. I had a couple of indie bands.

First:SIGMA, I could really insult you if it would do things better in this world,

secound: Ok, ideias to lowfi your drum sound: all the above are nice. ive try them all and use them often.
There are still 2 or 3 to cover.

Get your drums through a synth. I use my nord modular for this, and design a patch for a specific drum treatment but you can use any synths audio in and try something out.

Use those little hand recorders people use to record speech.

I also use my copperphone a lot for that. Its a pretty cheap mic and works really good for this.



but the most important thing here I think is not goind too mad or you can loose yourself in the process. Start by using EQ. Really hard EQ. Like a big boost in the mid area and cut those hifreqs out. Not too much bass too. Make it sound between 100/150 and 3 k, something like it. Maybe you dont have to destroy it too much.

Have luck