Help! Can Bass traps take away too much bass?

[Slaytex]

Ethan always says that there is no such thing as too many bass traps. Maybe you have a low end node in your mix position giving you the impression of more bass, or maybe you've learned over the years how to compensate with your monitors. Maybe a combination of both.
I also noticed a drop in bass, but at the same time after putting up traps on my sides and ceiling for fist reflections, my stereo imaging has skyrocketed. I'd give it a while in order for you to get used to it.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Watersound

Ok, so I made some bass traps for my control room which is approx 11'x12' and used 4" of Owens Corning 705 floor to ceiling front corners (special thanks to Ethan for all the DIY info) but here's my question: prior to doing this my mixes always translated quite well actually though the room was a touch bassy, but not at all a real problem. Now it seems as though sooo much bass is gone. I do hear the mixes clearer and yes things like reverb tails and fx/panning are noticeably clearer, however I miss "feeling the bass". Sure I hear it but everything sounds much more clinical. Is this something I just have to get used to and am simply bugging out right now? Also I'm kind of winging it, I haven't done room impulses or any scientific measurments, I'm just going with what I hear. I'm assuming it will be much better this way with the traps in place, but my question is, can you have too much low end absorption? My highs and mids are great by the way. Thanks.

trap is a misnomer that we unfortunately use..it's really a low end reasonance controller

[u b k]

agreed with slaytex, give it some time for your brain to adjust. after a few weeks of working in the clearer room, your mixes ought to translate even better than before. and if you then pull the trapping out, you'll very likely wonder "how did i ever wade thru all this mush?"

your brain *will* reorient its baseline, and i can almost guarantee you will experience the same satisfaction with the tighter bass that you used to with the bigger, looser stuff. i say this based on my own experience of learning to monitor insanely quietly --- like 50db can't-hear-anything-when-sarah's-washing-the-dishes quiet --- and learning to feel the energy and emotional impact of the music the same way i did when it was 85db.

the brain is a lovely thing, and reality is delightfully adjustable.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Slaytex

Ethan always says that there is no such thing as too many bass traps. Maybe you have a low end node in your mix position giving you the impression of more bass, or maybe you've learned over the years how to compensate with your monitors. Maybe a combination of both.
I also noticed a drop in bass, but at the same time after putting up traps on my sides and ceiling for fist reflections, my stereo imaging has skyrocketed. I'd give it a while in order for you to get used to it.

You are spot on sir!!! thumbsup

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Watersound

can you have too much low end absorption?

No. Bass traps do three things, all of which you want:

1) They reduce peaks.
2) They raise up nulls.
3) They reduce ringing.

So while bass traps do reduce the levels of bass, they do that only at frequencies where the levels were too high to begin with.

everything sounds much more clinical

An accurate and well balanced room can be an acquired taste. But once you get used to it you'll never go back.

--Ethan

[Slaytex]

Originally Posted by myfipie

You are spot on sir!!! thumbsup

I guess all that reading and researching has finally paid off!
I tell you after building the first few traps and hearing the improvement, I have become addicted to building more and more bass traps. It's like crack and my wife is about to kill me.
Thanks.

[Watersound]

Thank you guys for all your advice, I do believe my room has improved, but just like UBIK said it takes some readjusting. I have noticed that I am not listening as loud as I was, it seems like the extra bass prior to adding the bass traps was deceiving me into thinking louder sounded better, and indeed encouraged me to turn it up. But man can I hear effects waaaaaay better!!

[Capstan Cappy]

huh? , i can remember when my father redesigned his controle room with a pro-acoustical engineer they had tons of base traps , at first when they fired up the tannoy FSM's wich arent small it was sounding like a transistor radio , nothing below 100hz , absolutely nothing, (think i was 10 at that time) , after removing halve of the traps the low-end was there, small calculation error it seemed ....when installing more basetraps doesnt that increase the absorbtion coeficient deu to increasing surface of absorbtion of the same region??, if that makes sence

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Capstan Cappy

after removing halve of the traps the low-end was there, small calculation error it seemed ....when installing more basetraps doesnt that increase the absorbtion coeficient deu to increasing surface of absorbtion of the same region??

Without knowing more about the room, and the type of bass traps used, I can't comment. Years ago things were done differently than today, and large rooms respond differently than the smaller rooms a lof of folks use now. But with broadband bass traps that are designed to be effective mostly below, say, 300 Hz, it's not possible to have too many. At least not in a domestic size room.

--Ethan

[Watersound]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

An accurate and well balanced room can be an acquired taste. But once you get used to it you'll never go back.

--Ethan

I will say that my room now sounds more like the "professional" top of the line control rooms I've been in/worked in so that can't be a bad thing! But it's like a totally different room and it is shocking actually.

[Capstan Cappy]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Without knowing more about the room, and the type of bass traps used, I can't comment. Years ago things were done differently than today, and large rooms respond differently than the smaller rooms a lof of folks use now. But with broadband bass traps that are designed to be effective mostly below, say, 300 Hz, it's not possible to have too many. At least not in a domestic size room.

--Ethan

ah oke , well the room was 64 square meters with 4 meter high slope ceiling, so a big room with a monitor wall and a-symetric walls ofcourse, didnt realise we were talking about smaller rooms, they were pretty small band those traps from 100hz down, just asked him and said he had 16 traps at first lol

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Slaytex

I guess all that reading and researching has finally paid off!
I tell you after building the first few traps and hearing the improvement, I have become addicted to building more and more bass traps. It's like crack and my wife is about to kill me.
Thanks.

That is so funny. I had a guy down in TX order from us like 4 times. His statement was the same "Glenn these things are like crack, you just can't have enough"..

Glenn

[Slaytex]

Heehe... I'm telling you guys, you all need to work with Martha Stewart and come up with more ways to make the bass traps match a rooms decor while still being functional for us married folk. Maybe I can send you a photo of a potrait, in which you can silk screen onto the front of the trap and then frame it to make it look like a picture.

Good luck to you!

[Slaytex]

Glenn, by the way in case you didn't notice you have 1073 posts!

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Slaytex

Glenn, by the way in case you didn't notice you have 1073 posts!

Guess I have to go buy one then!! opps 1074 now

[Mike Caffrey]

Before I trapped my room I was worried about overtrapping and I was told the same thing. I was also told that I might hear more bass because I'd be trapping bass that otherwise would be bouncing around causing cancelations and for the most part, that was my expereince.

Since then, I've had Bob Hodas tune my room and it's been even better.

You've probably made you room more acccurate over all, but if you're hearing less bass that may be an indication that your monitoring position is not the idea one for the room.

[stevep]

If you need more bass .... its time for a sub !



or maybe 4 ..

[Scott R. Foster]

As a percentage of surface area the amount of absorptive treatment a room requires diminishes with room size... and of course the need varies with the use.... so the question has more than one correct answer.

But to reduce the context to the average man's studio / mixing suite, then one could say: Sure.. you can add more absorptive treatment than is beneficial... but in a very small room, where you are trying to build a single seat critical listening station its a non-trivial event. In others words - in the stated context - you almost certainly won't unless you go absolutely nuts about it.

Happy Basstrap Hanging!

[NoPro]

Originally Posted by Watersound

I will say that my room now sounds more like the "professional" top of the line control rooms I've been in/worked in so that can't be a bad thing! But it's like a totally different room and it is shocking actually.

Same here. I gotta lotta help here on gs and am very grateful to Glenn. Thank you. It makes a huge difference. I wish I had more traps. For now it's just simply better. I wish I knew years ago what I know now with all the help here and knowledge base.

[Rob Coates]

I had the same concern when I put multiple traps in my little control room. It has a vaulted ceiling where I put a huge trap in the apex of, traps in all the corners, a couch on the back wall filled with absorbant stuff, and 2 always open doorways, one to a fair size closet, and the other to the hall way. I was worried at first cause it sounded like I had no bass al all! I'm used to it now however and stuff sounds right in there.

[Insulation Man]

I always recommend installing panels and bass traps in stages so you never over do it and you don't spend more than you need to.