Black Lion Audio 002 Mod - Possible to clock Digimax LT to the 002?

[nerogtr]

After reading around GS about the Black Lion Audio 002 mod, I've been highly considering getting the mod done myself. Right now I have a 002 and a Digimax LT (connected via adat), with the Digimax LT as the clock source.

My question is, if I do the BLA upgrade, I'm obviously going to want to use the internal clock in the 002 as the master- so is it possible to use the Digimax LT with the 002 as the clock source? It only has ADAT out but has word clock in. Of course the 002 doesn't have a word clock out ...

[outoftune]

you just set the 002 to master in ptle, and set the digimax on ext clock! bam!

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by outoftune

you just set the 002 to master in ptle, and set the digimax on ext clock! bam!

but adat is a one way connection, how is the digimax going to get the external clock signal? the 002 doesn't have a wordclock out, and that is the only way the digimax can get clock information (no adat in). i know i've run that configuration by accident (when i first got the digimax), and it results in clicks and pops.

[andremattos]

Sorry, you can't
I've done it before
002 - Digimax LT (Digi master clock & Digimax slave)

[Raw-Tracks]

Originally Posted by andremattos

Sorry, you can't
I've done it before

So which is it?

[Rqrstudio]

Hey Im curious about this too.
I got my Bla mod not too long ago (so. damn. good.)
And ive yet to try, but i think if you get a rca/bnc adapter
and send the spdif out to the digimax word clock it should
carry word clock info...i think.
I hope someone else can tell me this would work.
If not, im out 8 preamps...

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Rqrstudio

Hey Im curious about this too.
I got my Bla mod not too long ago (so. damn. good.)
And ive yet to try, but i think if you get a rca/bnc adapter
and send the spdif out to the digimax word clock it should
carry word clock info...i think.
I hope someone else can tell me this would work.
If not, im out 8 preamps...

i have a feeling that that a simple connector adapter isn't going to be enough. my assumption would be that the normal BNC wordclock is going to send the clock signal differently than spdif. i could be wrong though.

it looks like the only solution would be a BLA 003 mod now that the 003 is out, since it has the wordclock. i dont really want to upgrade to the 003 though, its really the 002.5 (IMHO) and really just contains features the original 002 should have had in the first place. i can hear HD calling me...i just dont have the $$ yet haha.

[seandoe]

We're having a nearly identical conversation in another thread where someone suggested getting one of these:

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products_iso_da.html

Seems like it should work, better than a connector adaptor anyway. Pretty spendy option in comparison to the BLA mod and the Digimax (or octane in my situation) themselves though....but cheaper than HD.
Let us know if the adaptor thing works if someone tries it out!!!

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by seandoe

We're having a nearly identical conversation in another thread where someone suggested getting one of these:

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products_iso_da.html

Seems like it should work, better than a connector adaptor anyway. Pretty spendy option in comparison to the BLA mod and the Digimax (or octane in my situation) themselves though....but cheaper than HD.
Let us know if the adaptor thing works if someone tries it out!!!

cool product, but for that price i'd almost rather see if BLA is planning on doing 003 mods and then upgrading (its so ugly though...ugh ) for the wordclock out. i'm getting to the point in my experience and work level though where an HD upgrade may be in my future anyway. its not worth all this work to get the digimax clocking to the 002.

[Rqrstudio]

I guess i should have suggested a bnc-spdif cable.
Not adapter...more solid id think. But i came across a site
that sold mostly video stuff, but in the item description it said
"great for word clock" so i think itll work. And it was about 8 bucks.
Either way, HD is getting set up the second i have the dough for it.
Ill try out the cable this weekend and let you all know.
-mike

[Rqrstudio]

Oh, and the BLA mod sounds very close to HD id say.
With a super fast processor in my PC im going to have a
hard time spending all that money for an HD setup...
But the black lion guys are brillllllaint.

[amishsixstringe]

I guess i should have suggested a bnc-spdif cable.
Not adapter...more solid id think. But i came across a site
that sold mostly video stuff, but in the item description it said
"great for word clock" so i think itll work. And it was about 8 bucks.
Either way, HD is getting set up the second i have the dough for it.
Ill try out the cable this weekend and let you all know.
-mike

Yes, please do. I'm going to ask Matt what he thinks as well.


peace

Neil

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Rqrstudio

I guess i should have suggested a bnc-spdif cable.
Not adapter...more solid id think. But i came across a site
that sold mostly video stuff, but in the item description it said
"great for word clock" so i think itll work. And it was about 8 bucks.
Either way, HD is getting set up the second i have the dough for it.
Ill try out the cable this weekend and let you all know.
-mike

let me know how the adapter works- i hope it does, this is good stuff to know.

[Rqrstudio]

i actually already asked the guys at black lion about this
issue and if the adapter/cable deal would work and they
said they didnt know...and to let them know if it worked
when i tried it...a little weird.
I would think this would be a huge issue for alot of people
seeing as it pretty much makes the lightpipe obsolete.
Leaving you with a 10 channel unit (with the spdif) or basically
8 channels of analog ins. Who can live with just 8 channels?!
The only project ive done since i got the unit back was an acoustic
project (that came out lovely) so the inputs wernt an issue.
This weekend coming up is an actual band so i need to
record drums (with triggers, about 12 tracks) so im super screwed
if this cable doesnt work...
And i lied, my immediate upgrade is going to be a stereo Mytek a/d
which i hear is only a notch above the clock in the mod...but
then at least i can set protools to clock to the spdif of the mytek
and send the word clock to the digimax and make everything happy
and working together...but thats a $900 upgrade and almost makes
me wish i never got the BLA mod in the first place...
Although the new pres sound FAN-FREAKING-TASTIC.
But i guess for the price of the mod, the new pres you get are worth it.
Or are they...?
Any other people having this issue???
I guess if you track dance/rap/acoustic stuff you dont need the inputs..
But for rock and roll like i usually do...I reaaaallly need the 16 ins...
Anyone??? Solutions???

[nerogtr]

i'm not very well informed when it comes to how word clock works and how it is transmitted. is the signal sent of the spdif cable sent the exact same way and encoded the same was as the word clock sent over the BNC? spdif sends audio as well, which is why i'm unsure. if a simple adapter / cable solution is possible, would this be what we are looking for? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RCAadapter/

anyone have any other possible solutions? i dont mind dropping $2 to test this out.


edit: also, is an spdif cable really that reliabe for transmitting clock information?. SPDIF was meant as a consumer level version of the AES/EBU.

[Rqrstudio]

yeah thats the guy in question.
Im going to radio shack to pick one up and test it out.
The other thing is that you cant use an "rca" cable,
it has to be a "spdif" cable. I think you CAN use a regular
old rca cable, but its not reliable. A specific digital cable is
the way to go.
And im not sure, but i dont think that audio is constantly passed
through the spdif out unless you specifically send it to that output.
Like parallel outs on the master fader (1-l/r analog out 2 l/r spdif out)
anyways...
I think word clock is basically just a digital signal (ones and zeros)
So i dont think an adapter is going to really give it that hard a time.
But sweetwater is all about helping people over the phone so
maybe someone should give them a jingle and ask some questions
about word clock and about that adapter...
The anticipation is killing me.
And also, I think just about every clock out there uses spdif
along with bnc/aes to send the clock signal so i think its pretty safe.
Probably not if theres audio going on top on the signal...that might
confuse it...

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Rqrstudio

yeah thats the guy in question.
Im going to radio shack to pick one up and test it out.
The other thing is that you cant use an "rca" cable,
it has to be a "spdif" cable. I think you CAN use a regular
old rca cable, but its not reliable. A specific digital cable is
the way to go.
And im not sure, but i dont think that audio is constantly passed
through the spdif out unless you specifically send it to that output.
Like parallel outs on the master fader (1-l/r analog out 2 l/r spdif out)
anyways...
I think word clock is basically just a digital signal (ones and zeros)
So i dont think an adapter is going to really give it that hard a time.
But sweetwater is all about helping people over the phone so
maybe someone should give them a jingle and ask some word clock
questions and that adapter...

i may need to call mark magditch at sweetwater to inquire on the matter. do you think warren from front end audio (warhead on GS) would be up on the matter? maybe a PM his way might be in order.

[Rqrstudio]

Hey everyone who is interested:
I emailed my very own sweetwater sales rep and
he says.....
drum roll please....



"No way will this ever work"

GREAT!

Now i have an 8 channel recording device that is really
going to put a damper on things for a while...
I guess i need to open up the piggy bank and
shell out 900 bucks for the mytek sooner than i thought.
I wish i could write the f word in caps a hundred times.
Thats how i feel right now.
I hope everyone who is interested in the BLA mod
reads this before going for it. This really sucks.

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Rqrstudio

Hey everyone who is interested:
I emailed my very own sweetwater sales rep and
he says.....
drum roll please....



"No way will this ever work"

GREAT!

Now i have an 8 channel recording device that is really
going to put a damper on things for a while...
I guess i need to open up the piggy bank and
shell out 900 bucks for the mytek sooner than i thought.
I wish i could write the f word in caps a hundred times.
Thats how i feel right now.
I hope everyone who is interested in the BLA mod
reads this before going for it. This really sucks.

sounds like i'll pass on the BLA mod now...

[amishsixstringe]

This does suck. Mine is getting the mod as we speak. I'll probably just ditch my digimax and get something with good pres/converters/clock and clock off that. Any ideas? Ooorrr just converters and a clock. Leave the pres to the outboard...Appogee 800?


Neil

[Rqrstudio]

the worst part about this is the BLA mod
does sound REALLY good. it seems a waste to
buy a better clock/converter because this thing
sounds super pro now. but you only get 8 ins...
So its like taking a HUGE step forward but at the
same time a HUGE step back ...
Bummer.
The pres alone are worth the cost of the upgrade tho.
lets just say they sound very expesive now.

As far as getting a new clock goes...
Sure apogee is standard. Sounds great.
Apparently people are comparing the BLA clock mod to a big ben.
i havent used one, so i couldnt compare
WAY less money to go with BLA tho...

Ill use this analogy for you guitar guys out there:
Its like taking an Epiphone guitar and turning it into a
Gibson Custom paul with 3 strings...haha
If that makes any sense?

[nerogtr]

the response the BLA mod is getting is really really exciting, and i want it done myself. but in order to take advantage of all the inputs i need i couldn't use the new clock....seems like such a waste. so i could do it for just the preamps and then spend a FORTUNE on a nice external clock =\. very depressing.

[amishsixstringe]

The way I plan to use it until I get a clock is to record my drum clocks with the adat pres and clock, but then disconect the digimax and clock off the 002 for all my overdubs and mixing solutions. Still get the adantage of 8 better converters and 4 better pres during drum tracking, and then you get the better jitterless clock for overdubs and mixing. Better than nothing I suppose.

Neil

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by amishsixstringe

The way I plan to use it until I get a clock is to record my drum clocks with the adat pres and clock, but then disconect the digimax and clock off the 002 for all my overdubs and mixing solutions. Still get the adantage of 8 better converters and 4 better pres during drum tracking, and then you get the better jitterless clock for overdubs and mixing. Better than nothing I suppose.

Neil

sounds like thats how i'd end up working too. do you know if BLA will just mod the preamps and not the clock? would not upgrading the other components negate the improved preamps?

[Rqrstudio]

Once you hear the mod for youself you will
NEVER want to use the digimax clock again.
Serioulsy. Its in a totally different league now.
Itd be like tracking drums with a mackie vlz crap
box mixer and doing overdubs through a Neve console...
Seriously.
But if thats what you need...
Im just going with 8 Mics on the kit.
I can make that work.
i wish i didnt have to...but i can manage.

[LoopQuantum]

Originally Posted by Rqrstudio

Hey everyone who is interested:
I emailed my very own sweetwater sales rep and
he says.....
drum roll please....



"No way will this ever work"

GREAT!

Now i have an 8 channel recording device that is really
going to put a damper on things for a while...
I guess i need to open up the piggy bank and
shell out 900 bucks for the mytek sooner than i thought.
I wish i could write the f word in caps a hundred times.
Thats how i feel right now.
I hope everyone who is interested in the BLA mod
reads this before going for it. This really sucks.

To shed some light on this, my understanding as to why it's difficult to do this, especially with the BLA Mod, is that BLA downclocks the converter as part of their process in improving resolution, strangely enough. (I.E. 44.1 is really something lower.. like 43.8 though I'm not exactly sure what the exact rate is). as a result, because of the obviously wider than normal deviation from a standard sample rate, doesn't play nice with externally sync'd sources.

As always, it's possible that I'm incorrect, but this is what I was told by a reputable source.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by LoopQuantum

To shed some light on this, my understanding as to why it's difficult to do this, especially with the BLA Mod, is that BLA downclocks the converter as part of their process in improving resolution, strangely enough. (I.E. 44.1 is really something lower.. like 43.8 though I'm not exactly sure what the exact rate is). as a result, because of the obviously wider than normal deviation from a standard sample rate, doesn't play nice with externally sync'd sources.

As always, it's possible that I'm incorrect, but this is what I was told by a reputable source.

This cannot be correct. Can someone write to Black Lion and find out? Because if it is the case, then BLA recordings will playback fast everywhere else...

I'm hoping it is typical gearslutz misinformation, and someone will correct it (or confirm it if true!).

Or maybe the BLA mod is the way to get that Beatles double tracking sound?!?!

[LoopQuantum]

Originally Posted by loujudson

This cannot be correct. Can someone write to Black Lion and find out? Because if it is the case, then BLA recordings will playback fast everywhere else...

I'm hoping it is typical gearslutz misinformation, and someone will correct it (or confirm it if true!).

Or maybe the BLA mod is the way to get that Beatles double tracking sound?!?!

I didn't get this from GS. I got it from a friend in the A/D manufacturing world. Yes, he could be wrong. He usually isn't. Forgive me if he is. I'm not one to "Misinform".

[Rqrstudio]

I dont think thats true.
For what i remember they actually only double the
frequency of the clock. Whatever that means...
I dont know what word clock looks like but it
didnt afftect the sample rate for me.
I recorded at 48k and bounced to disc and made
a cd and everything is the same speed.
Im not a word clock expert so i dont know
what they do but i dont think theyd do anything
like that and not tell people upfront.

-mike

[seandoe]

Yeah, I'll still probably go ahead with the mod and run it the way someone described earlier (clocking with adat when I have to, and clocking with the digi whenever else). Just out of curiosity, is anyone actually going to try this still just to see. I'm not sure if the only source anyone had was from one salesman suggesting the sale between the difference of a $2 cable, and a $1000 Apogee.
I'm just still curious, cuz like I said, in another thread, someone said they bought that antelop iso da
which he sent signal to from the spdif out of the digi and from what I understand, it worked.....when it seems to me, if you aren't distributing the signal to other things.....you would basically be doing the same thing.....just a thought.