Recording an EMU SP1200

[shapemod]

I realized that when I sync my SP1200 via Midiclock to Logic that the SP1200 is not perfectly synced. When you record the SP1200 into Logic and you cut a perfect Loop in the Sample-editor you have a resulting tempo of let's say 119.89 instead of 120, which was the actual tempo of Logic, where the SP1200 was synced to. This is not that much of a problem, normally I just stick to 119.89 and than everything I program additionally into Logic will be deadon. But I have to record the SP1200, all 8 Outs at one time. Lot's of guys here told that it makes really a difference using DI's for recording that kind of gear. So, what are you using for something like that, 8 Tube-Dis? Or just basic passive units, seems to be more realistic pricewise.
So, how do you handle this?

[Teacher]

y do you have to record 8 outs at a time anyway? times sake?

cuz me personally i only have one good stereo di at the moment so i'll just track 2 at a time

[shapemod]

cause that's the only way to have a good timing between each instrument, Midiclock isn't the most exact thing in the world of sample accurate timing.

[Jan Folkson]

Yeah, otherwise you'll wind up drifting. You don't mention what kind of recording gear you've got already but you could get yourself a box like the JD6 from Radial:

http://www.radialeng.com/di-jd6-features.htm

Their stuff is rock solid. You can then add to that a stereo tube DI for the kick and snare. That'll give you 8.

[shapemod]

The Radial seems to be very interesting. Couldn't find a price though. Does anybody know? Actually I never used any DI, plugged the units directly into my Allen&Heath 2000, but it has just 4 Subgroups and so I have to use sends aswell for recording 8 tracks at a time, not the ideal way, so I thoght about a DI solution.

[electric]

hey -
you may not like this idea but i'll throw it out there for ya.i have never used the sp-1200 but it still works off midi like an mpc 2k so there shouldnt be much difference. i assume the sp-1200 can save midi files on floppy right?if not then this might not help you. (it is a much cheaper solution and gives more flexibility to the project once you get it in the daw.) i have done this on both logic and cubase sx and it works good.

my old mpc only had 2 outs and i would have lots of tracks and i didnt want to iteratively record to audio like you are talking about . i wanted to also be able to make changes to the midi programming in the computer and not have to re-record the tracks to update the project. so i created my own flow for "re-building" the project in the daw. (with a vst sampler- i use LM4 by steinberg. its prob about a $40 piece of software.) this way you can edit the fine details in the midi on the computer (much better than the lcd), and if you make changes you can quickly refreeze the audio. (much faster than recording real time.) heres what i do

1) write down the note number associated with every pad. (akai has 64 pads) this takes about 5 minutes.

2) go through and sample each individual sound on the mpc into a stereo ad converter. (my new mpc 2k xl has spdif out so now i do it digital with no da/ad in the path - perfect audio) . this takes about 2 minutes. now you have one 2 minutes audio file with all the samples in your project.

3) cut up all the samples and name each file the note number it is associated with (takes about 1 hour for 64 samples. )

4) dump the midi file out of your drum machine onto floppy. (emu /akai. again i know nothing of the emu but i assume it can do this) (1 minute)

5) start a new daw session. read in the midi file. you now have the midi data for project in the arrange window. (note : on the akai you have the ability to progam each sample on its own individually named tracks. so when i read in a midi file i'll see like 13 or so named tracks. everything looks great.) if you have all you pads programmed on 1 big midi track you will have to edit it into several tracks that only triger one sound on each . (or if i have one sound pitched all for a melody or something i'll keep all on same track) (1-2 minutes)

6) create a vst instrument for the LM4. (it has 18 drum pads per intrument so if you have 64 pads being used you would need 4 lm4's . this can be a prob if you have a slow/low ram pc). read in each sample and attach it to the same note number as the name. (this is where spending the time and saving the note num in the name saves you a shitload of time.) (20 minutes)

with that you are done. you have the entire project setup with the exact same tempo all locked with full editing capability in the daw. also with the LM4 you get 6 outs. (3 st and 2 mono i think) to the mixer. this means you can attach different pads to a different track in the mixer and put individual effects. (no plug delay either). then you can include those effects when you bounce to audio. this gives you really good flexibility. i usually route kics/snares to indivd mono's and have the stereo pad samples go out to the stereos. this process is a litle involved but not that bad really. takes about 2 hours of your time per projcect. but i only do it once. usually when its time to start recording lyrics for the project. its not that big a deal.

i like this method the best and its cheap assuming you have a good ad converter

my 2cents
electric

[Jan Folkson]

Hey Electric,

The thing that makes an MPC or SP desireable is that the sequencer and the sound engine are in the same box. This takes midi and all of it's delays and discrepancies out of the equation. That's why the MPC and SP "feel" so good :)

HTH.

[electric]

i dont disagree. however to me its just a tool to make music. i love it because its interface. i dont have to deal with midi/keyboard. i just throw samples in and go. but you cant

mix
record lyrics on it.
really quickly re-edit samples with fine precision/effects.

this is where daw kicks in for me. i make the foundation for the entire song in the mpc and then go into daw,record lyrics, and acutally bring my pc with and apogee da-16 into the studio for final mix. (break out all tracks into the console -yet all my automation on my pc is preserved.) it works really well for me.

i have had an mpc since 97. i tried to make beats with software on the computer. but its impossible for me. the mood gets killed with all the bullshit (keyboard/and the whole interface). with the mpc my ideas just flow and i get shit done. plus i like the way it limits you.

this is just the way i do stuff. i thought i would throw it out there.

electric

[electric]

also i would like to point out that once i have the project in the box there are no delays to deal with. i use the uad-1 and cubase sx has full plug comp. when i bounce the track to audio its "exactly" in time to the sample at when its in midi. i can have half the tracks being triggered by lm4 and half as bounced audio and they are all in sync. its really nice.

electric

[Jan Folkson]

I understand what you're saying but the feel of the MPC is really different when you create a drum part in it and play it than when you create a drum part in it save it as a SMF, load it into your daw and play the same part out of your midi interface into the same sounds in your MPC...in some cases, really different.

Your method is certainly is an inexpensive workaround and may very well work for Shapemod...good suggestion.

[shapemod]

Thanks for your suggestions, electric. I don't think that you can save midifiles with SP1200 and I can't find out since my G4 doesn't have a floppy. I'm used to program beats and stuff just in the computer, that's the way I started and most of my production is done. So the SP1200 is more a Oldschool-underground-tool for me and what makes this machine cool and fun is just the combination of the interface, the 12bit sound and the way the machine is grooving. So the ideal and fastest way for me is to record some patterns and do the arrangement and the additional production in the computer.

[Peter Project]

4) dump the midi file out of your drum machine onto floppy. (emu /akai. again i know nothing of the emu but i assume it can do this) (1 minute)

5) start a new daw session. read in the midi file. you now have the midi data for project in the arrange window. (note : on the akai you have the ability to progam each sample on its own individually named tracks. so when i read in a midi file i'll see like 13 or so named tracks. everything looks great.)

Ive never used an SP either, but I've sold them (I work in a vintage gear shop) and I think you might have a tough time fitting those 5" floppies into your 3.5" floppie drive!

[Fredrik]

It´s not possible to export midi files on the sp1200, but perhaps there is a software solution similar to the mpc3k programeditor that can read sp disks and convert to midifile, I doubt it though.

[waveterm]

Originally Posted by Peter Project

Ive never used an SP either, but I've sold them (I work in a vintage gear shop) and I think you might have a tough time fitting those 5" floppies into your 3.5" floppie drive!

The SP-1200 uses a 3.5" discdrive.

The SP-12 used the Commodore 5 1/4" drive.

WT