BAE 1272 vs. 1073 popularity

[I.T.]

I have been checking studio gearlists to find out which preamps are the most popular. Is seems like the Brent Averill 1272 is pretty common. I haven't seen many of his 1073 units though. Now I don't really have much experience with Neve-based preamps--I'm an API guy... Is there a particular reason why the BAE 1272 is so much more popular than the BAE 1073?

Tonally, how does the Brent Averill 1272 compare to something like an API 312 (which I am very familiar with).

[chetatkinsdiet]

cheaper and more readily available? That's my guess. I'd rather have a 1073 than a 1272 anyday. Without going into all the details, the 1272 isn't really a Neve pre. It was a line amp that has been stripped out of boards and converted into pres. That was done so much, the clones started. Since the other Neve pres like the 1073 are more complex and more expensive to ape, they aren't found as much as the cheaper, 1272.

Again, the 1272-ish pres sound nice, but give me the other any day.

m

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by I.T.

Is there a particular reason why the 1272 is so much more popular than the 1073?

i think it's more popular because it is less expensive.
fwiw i think Geoff Tanner has gone on record stating that the Neve 1272s were never really made to be vocal preamps. they were made for some other purpose (Geoff, please correct me here).


cheers,
~j.d.

[jdjustice]

Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet

Without going into all the details, the 1272 isn't really a Neve pre. It was a line amp that has been stripped out of boards and converted into pres. That was done so much, the clones started.

there you go!!

[bendecido]

a good reason could be because its cheaper my friend. The 1073 and 1272 preamps sound pretty similar till you take the 1272 above 50db gain when it starts to use a different gain stage. Imo its a poor mans 1073- dont quote me

[I.T.]

That's what I suspected. Cheaper = More Popular

[I.T.]

With the differences in gain staging, how would you describe the tonal character of a 1272 in comparison to a 1073? Does a 1272 mic pre color the sound differently than a 1073 mic pre?

[WunderBro Flo]

Well on Brent Averill´s website under product info he says his "1727" has:

"Same Class A preamp as Neve™* 1073 equalizer/preamp modules "


So it seems it is his 1073 "preamp only" version of the 1073. Guess he added the parts that were necessary to make the original Neve1727 a full 1073 preamp section. Which makes me believe it will most probably sound exactly like his 1073 with the EQ out of the circuit.

Rock on!
Pat

[cheeky b]

I'm no Neve expert but my understanding is that the Neve 1272 line amp is the same or similar to the first two gain stages of the 1073 but lacks the third stage completely. If you've got a 1272 with something added, then logically it's no longer a 1272.

!272s are great rock pres for loud sources, drums, electric guitars etc.

[666666]

One thing I can tell you, I compared a new AMS Neve 1073DPA mic pre to an older Brent Averill 1272 (original vintage Neve 1272 line amp, not a "reproduction")... and also compared these to other assorted newer and vintage Neve style pres... the BAE 1272 sounded the most similar to the 1073DPA of all. It has that authentic Neve sound... which in my opinion is not so easy to duplicate correctly.

[WunderBro Flo]

I have just sent off a message to Brent Averill asking him about the third gain stage that separates the original 1272 from the 1073 preamp and what the substitute in his 1272 is. Gonna let you all know as soon as I get a reply!
Rock on!
Pat

[Legacy Audio]

Brent's 1073 Reproductions are spot-on.

We've got genuine Neve 1073's and Brent's side by side and I've never heard/seen anyone pick the difference. Infact everyone comments how much they sound identical. Mind you, we are talking about recapped genuine 1073's in top shape.

I've also heard/used the AMS reissues and they are every bit as good too (but you'd expect that).

[666666]

Originally Posted by Legacy Audio

Brent's 1073 Reproductions are spot-on.
We've got genuine Neve 1073's and Brent's side by side and I've never heard/seen anyone pick the difference. Infact everyone comments how much they sound identical. Mind you, we are talking about recapped genuine 1073's in top shape.
I've also heard/used the AMS reissues and they are every bit as good too (but you'd expect that).

Thanks for the review. Are you talking about both the pre-amps AND the equalizer sections, or just the pre-amps?

I am extremely happy with my 1073DPA and BAE pres, I see no need to upgrade there. But, I would like to eventually get my grubby paws on some real-deal eqs. I am happy with the pair of Vintech X73s I have for what they are, but I am so interested in hearing the "real thing" to see either what I am missing or not missing... talking only about equalizers now, not pres.

Too bad the new AMS Neve 1073s are so darned expensive... just cannot justify spending that much... the BAEs are still high but at least a bit more reasonable. The X73 and X73i are dirt cheap and an inccredible deal in my opinion for what you get, I don't think I'd ever let go of my X73s because regardless of how they'd compare to the "real thing", they're still excellent very useful units in their own right... and the eqs are as "Neve sounding" generally speaking as I could ever imagine a clone sounding.

[aryschien]

I've owned a BAE1272 for a couple of years. There was just something not right about it. Yet I just prefer the Neve color over the others, so I didn't switch.

Later I borrowed a BAE1073. After listening to the sound coming out of it for 3 seconds I decided right away that I'd keep it and sold the 1272.

The reasons are everything mentioned earlier in this thread.

[WunderBro Flo]

Originally Posted by aryschien

Later I borrowed a BAE1073. After listening to the sound coming out of it for 3 seconds I decided right away that I'd keep it and sold the 1272.

Not trying to bug you, but if you "hear" such a difference within 3 seconds without even setting up a proper blindtest, I think you are most probably wrong. I think it was not the sound that bothered you about the 1272 but the fact that it was not a "real" 1073, whereas when you knew you are now listening to a "real" 1073 you simply felt it sounded much better. Really, not trying to criticize you here, but findings like yours are so common and we all are prone to judge stuff like that. It happened to me often enough so I do not judge stuff anymore without blind-testing.

cheers,
pat

[thearnicasync]

Originally Posted by WildCowboys

Well on Brent Averill´s website under product info he says his "1727" has:

"Same Class A preamp as Neve™* 1073 equalizer/preamp modules "


So it seems it is his 1073 "preamp only" version of the 1073. Guess he added the parts that were necessary to make the original Neve1727 a full 1073 preamp section. Which makes me believe it will most probably sound exactly like his 1073 with the EQ out of the circuit.

Rock on!
Pat

I'm hoping to get this answer too...I've been thinking about it, lately...I need a neve-ish pre again.

The bae 1272 does do 70db of gain, which is almost the same as 1073 (80dB), right? Not sure what/how it does that last 20 db.

But agreed, a 1073 is a totally different beast than a 1272.

Having spent quite a while with the chandler ltd-1 and the 7th circle 1272 clone, I certainly know I don't want the 7th circle thing again. Totally small and bratty sounding next to the LTD-1...

FWIW...

[Kestral]

I have to ask, rarely did I ever go above 50 db on my 1073. What kind of applications would necessitate that much gain?

[cody brown]

Originally Posted by Kestral

I have to ask, rarely did I ever go above 50 db on my 1073. What kind of applications would necessitate that much gain?

when you have the gain cranked up past 50 db there is the natural compression or maybe its just distortion that comes out. its a cool sound. the wavs on your daw will
look like bricks.

[Kestral]

Ahh thanks Cody, that would explain it, I didn't have a trim in my setup for my 1073. Plus I have compression from the 1176 :D

[aryschien]

Originally Posted by WildCowboys

Not trying to bug you, but if you "hear" such a difference within 3 seconds without even setting up a proper blindtest, I think you are most probably wrong.....pat

Hi Pat,

I agree with what you said totally. If I only listened to it for 3 seconds without a serious A/B test, then I'm not serious enough about my gear purchase.

What happened then is that, after listening to it for 3 seconds, I thought I prefer it over the BAE1272. Then I did some A/B test to confirm that. The store owner is a good friend of mine, so when I said "I'll keep it" he knew that I was going to do some A/B tests.

Everything's cool here.

[thearnicasync]

My AEA R84 lived around 60dB on acoustic guitar...the noise drove me nuts.

And even at 70dB, pre up/fader down, never did my wavs look like bricks. That's the L2.

Now throw a nice, real, ananlog synth and oh, what beautiful sharpie!

kb

[cody brown]

Originally Posted by thearnicasync

My AEA R84 lived around 60dB on acoustic guitar...the noise drove me nuts.

And even at 70dB, pre up/fader down, never did my wavs look like bricks. That's the L2.

Now throw a nice, real, ananlog synth and oh, what beautiful sharpie!

kb

maybe i shouldn't of said bricks. heres what i mean...

try a 1073 out on snare use whatever mic
set the gain low but high enough for a good signal keep the output/fader up
listen to the amount of bleed from the rest of the kit

next crank the gain and turn your output way down, try to keep the level matched
listen to the amount of bleed from the rest of the kit

sounds like when you put a compressor in the chain and squash it a bit.
lots more bleed.

the wavs will be much fatter.

never used an L2. goof.

[Matt Hepworth]

So, is the consensus that the BAE 1073 EQ and Pre are pretty much spot on with the AMS stuff?