Does It Hurt Our Feelings???

[loydma3]

Im on 22 years old, before I came into the world of recording I knew there was a difference between the music my mom listened to- ah sonic clarity...Recently here has been a decrease in the quality of recordings on the radio and major CD releases. Questions is does the consumer care? I dont think so....

Now as engineers and studio owners does this hurt our feelings? We debate gear, vintage or not, analog or digital etc..........but a real question is who cares?

(we arent talking bout crap recordings for those who are going to blow this out of proportion, but more so those classic recording versus new recordings done in house that people love)

[thenoiseflower]

Well,


I FVCKING CARE

are you telling me none of the music, YOU listen too sounds good? well then thats a PRESONAL problem, I buy 10 cd's a week, and there are plenty of new cd's that sound great, and will stand the test of time because everyone involved cared enough to make it so.


not to just try to suck the giant satan cock and make a few bucks and a name (seems most artists are concerned with this part) with a loud, trendy sounding cd and a marketing campain.


the consumers will care when they start listening instead of looking.

I give it 10 years/

[Jim Kerr]

Originally Posted by thenoiseflower

Well,


I FVCKING CARE

are you telling me none of the music, YOU listen too sounds good? well then thats a PRESONAL problem, I buy 10 cd's a week, and there are plenty of new cd's that sound great, and will stand the test of time because everyone involved cared enough to make it so.


not to just try to suck the giant satan cock and make a few bucks and a name (seems most artists are concerned with this part) with a loud, trendy sounding cd and a marketing campain.


the consumers will care when they start listening instead of looking.

I give it 10 years/

yep.
I just spent $250 on vinyl in AZ and the store was mobbed. I couldn't believe it. At that point I just wanted to hang out with cool people.
The consumers need to want it. Soon.
Its happening with LCD TVs.

[kats]

Fashion & styles come an go. Industries always have there ups and down as well. In the end (long term) quality, craftsmanship, and integrity stand the test of time and prevail.

So what are you going to say when some HiFi playback device becomes popular and your recording sound crappy on it? The fellow who built his reputation on quality will be all smiles. And on the other side of the coin, even during the times when it was fashionable to listen to music on ipod mp3's, it was never a negative to be known as someone who took pride in their work.

Ultimately you have to make yourself happy and decide what your legacy should be.

[s_sibs]

Questions is does the consumer care?

This question has been around from the beginning. Back in the day (50's & 60's) engineers would debate about if the customer would care if there was enough bass in the mix because the customers listened to music on 2 inch speakers from an AM radio signal and couldn't hear the bass much anyway.

Then when cassette tape came out the quality was much less then LPs and the customers didn't care.

Now, people are happy with MP3s and iPods and don't care about 64-bit and 192 kHz quality.

What all this proves is that customers don't care HOW the music is presented to them. They care if it's a good song. That's it...nothing else.

But...we, as engineers, (hopefully) care. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard than the "customers". They don't know any better...we do.

[Skrazz]

Originally Posted by loydma3

Im on 22 years old, before I came into the world of recording I knew there was a difference between the music my mom listened to- ah sonic clarity...Recently here has been a decrease in the quality of recordings on the radio and major CD releases. Questions is does the consumer care? I dont think so....

Now as engineers and studio owners does this hurt our feelings? We debate gear, vintage or not, analog or digital etc..........but a real question is who cares?

(we arent talking bout crap recordings for those who are going to blow this out of proportion, but more so those classic recording versus new recordings done in house that people love)

And think about all the mixing that's seemingly undone by mastering!
Not to give a hard time to mastering engineers because they're getting
paid to pack the most sound into the smallest of spaces in this manner. I picture
this firehose of sound knocking people off of their feet, into nearby
walls, and the masses shouting "MORE!!!". well, what about the rest of us who actually listen to music rather than wanting it "forced" onto us?

[gainreduction]

The consumer cares without knowing it. As said in another post they care about the song. But there's more to that.

A good production brings out the song in full strength and good sound is a part of that.

[warhead]

The song matters most, do your best but prioritize: music first, gear next.

War

[joelpatterson]

And you've got to distinguish between playback medium and what we might call "input medium."

Just because something is playing back on an iPod, that doesn't mean it was tracked and mixed in an iPod. If that were the case, it would sound ghastly, and iPods don't sound ghastly, they just sound "limited."

The sublte collusion of sounds that is the mixer's art will survive any kind of degradation and still retain its inherent goodness. That's my story, and stickie to it I will.

[centurymantra]

Originally Posted by s_sibs

Now, people are happy with MP3s and iPods and don't care about 64-bit and 192 kHz quality.

What all this proves is that customers don't care HOW the music is presented to them. They care if it's a good song. That's it...nothing else.

I wish I could be optimistic and say this is the case, but I personally feel that it is anything but this. I think an overwhelming majority treat music as a commodity...something to have and own - to shove into their mega-gig storage device, quite often acting as little more than lifestyle support. It's more like music is something to "have" more than something to actively sink into and absorb. There are still people who actively care about music and lifelong music geeks like myself that will use the benefits of the digital "revolution" to our advantage, but I think that music is slowly being drained of much of it's ability to shape the social and cultural environment in a relevant fashion. That being said, there are is still a lot of great music out there, and I do care about quality. I think there may be a backlash to 64k MP3s some day. Just the other day, a very non-audiophile type was mentioning that they put an actual CD into their car stereo for the first time in ages and were blown away by how much better it sounded than the MP3 playback they were used to.

I actually take issue when people start getting haughty and pretentious about how "...it's about the song man. I can connect with a Beethoven symphony on a clock radio". I often detect just as much attitude and pretentiousness in these statements. Like some sort of superiority is possessed and they don't need all that fancy gear and speakers. "....dude, all you care about is the gear man - it's about the music!" Yes, one level this is true, but I still feel this is 100% unadulterted bullshit. Caring about the quality of playback IS caring about the music. I will grant you that there are types that get wrapped up in gear and there are those audiophile types that definitely fit this category. And, yeah, not everyone has/can afford good playback gear, but there is NO comparing a 2" speaker in your clock radio to the immersive quality of music played in a high quality system (or a live concert for that matter). Not that one can't enjoy tunes on their clock radio or 39 cent earbuds, but to strive for the optimum sonic experience that music has to offer is a noble quest IMHO.

Cease to give a shit about this and the music dies.

[henryrobinett]

To me, there is no question, the music comes first. I can suffer through a bad recording with not one complaint if the music is amazing. As a matter of fact I hope I never even think about the recording. I don't want my attention drawn away from the music to the recording.

There's a really terrible, terrible, terrible recording of Coltrane playing with Monk at the Five Spot. Coltranes with just brought a reel to reel to the club. Probably set up a single mic and pressed record. People are talking by her table. But Coltrane is playing so incredibly wonderfully it blows my mind. I've listened to it over and over again.

It's all relative, you know? If the music isn't remarkable, then attention goes to making the SOUND QUALITY amazing. I mean not always. I'm completely generalizing. But sometimes I think we engineer can over inflate our importance to the whole process. Its' the music.

If the music sucks my feelings get hurt.

[theblue1]

It's not just contemporary music that get's the blown-out-to-the-walls jacking treatment.

I recently went through a brief re-appreciation of ZZ Top (they had some great moments early on) and at one point someone mentioned a newer track he liked... I put it on and it was... utterly unlistenable... first, coming from "clasic" tracks that had been released on earlier ZZT CDs, I was knocked back by the apparent loudness. Did I say apparent? It pinned me to my ****ing chair... I was reaching for the volume knob so fast I missed it...

And even when I turned it down to normal listening levels it sounded like utter crap -- I mean it was just hideous -- even by contemporary "standards."


I don't think you can only blame the MEs... it's those moronic, music-hating lawyers who run the ****ing business.

As the Shakespeare character famously said, "First we kill the lawyers..."

[lucey]

vinyl is coming back ... a real product that cant be copied.


(attorneys are an issue ... but that quote means something else entirely)

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Jim Kerr

yep.
I just spent $250 on vinyl in AZ and the store was mobbed.

What store?

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

The consumer cares without knowing it..

[loydma3]

just to let you know- i do care about sonic qualiy- i just know i happen to be listining to some old song over and over again that sounded like they are recorded through a can with a string on it- how does that figure for a audiophile

[loydma3]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

The consumer cares without knowing it. As said in another post they care about the song. But there's more to that.

A good production brings out the song in full strength and good sound is a part of that.

so we all hope- a least i do

[DSMrehearsal]

I think the problem stems from the fact that most consumers have NEVER listend to music on a high end system - there are many kids out there who don't even know what the term hi-fi means or how it came about.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by warhead

The song matters most, do your best but prioritize: music first, gear next.

War

[Jim Kerr]

Originally Posted by djui5

What store?

Eastside Records
217 W University Dr
Tempe, AZ 85281

There is also Memory Lane on University on the easy side. Never been there though.

[Saudade]

To me "sound quality" is both relative and contextual.

Relative in the sense you can only fairly compare sound quality when you put two records that are similar enough in genre side by side. It makes no sense to compare a modern rock piece with Frank Sinatra.

Contextual in the sense that a certain element in the sound of Record A may be what is needed to make the music sound good, but if you transplant that element into Record B, it will suck big time. Don't really know how to explain this. But it's like a RHCP record is mixed for instant gratification, loud, tight impactful sound. It may be the very element that supports the concept of the music. But if you transplant this "mix" to even a similar genre record, it may not work. It has to fit the music and its context.

To me, there isn't much use comparing and whining about sound quality, whether it has ironically gone downhill when high resolution equipment is getting more and more affordable.

I just go by the rule of: use the "sound" ("mix", if you like) of the record to support the song.

The importance of the "sound" of the record will only supersede the song itself IF there is nothing much in the song in the first place (turd polishing).

But if the song is already something in itself, then use the "sound" to develop the song to its fullest potential. If you don't have the engineering chops, then just make sure the "sound" doesn't get in the way (distract) of the song