Preamp Overkill???

[avntgrd]

I'm new to digital recording, so forgive me if this is an amateur question. Let's suppose an engineer is running his mics into high-end mic-pre's. Out of the mic-pre's, the signal runs into his computer's soundcard which have their own mic-pre's. Isn't this a bit redundant? Or do the outboard mic-pre's, such as API or Avalon, impart a certain color on the signal that soundcard mic-pre's do not?
I'm looking to get a Fireface 400 for my first venture into digital recording. I'm really hoping that the mic-pre's on the 400 will suffice and the purchase of additional outboard mic-pre's will not be necessary.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Thank you.

[u b k]

if you use outboard pre's, you bypass your soundcard's pre's and go directly into its line level input.

the fireface pre's may suffice for what you're doing, but they don't hold a candle to the likes of api.


gregoire
del
ubk
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[h-man]

All I can say, is once you try a "real" preamp, like some of the outboard pres you mentioned, it is all over for you. Yes, they all impart their very own flavor. Just do a search on 500 series preamps, otherwise known as the lunchbox setup. Be careful not to drool on yourself. haha. The slutism runs rabid around these parts.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by avntgrd

Or do the outboard mic-pre's, such as API or Avalon, impart a certain color on the signal that soundcard mic-pre's do not?

One important point to remember is that the 'color' of a high end preamp is more of a nice bonus than a reason to get a good preamp in the first place. That reason is the superior clarity, detail, and resolution you get from a high-end pre. Plus the low noise.

In other words, what they DON'T do to your microphone's signal. This becomes more and more apparent as you start to stack up tracks.

I'm really hoping that the mic-pre's on the 400 will suffice and the purchase of additional outboard mic-pre's will not be necessary.

The gearsluts would love to give you the (inexpensive) answer you were hoping for, but the truth is once you start down this road, the word 'suffice' will disappear from your vocabulary.

[avntgrd]

Wow! I want to thank you guys for such informative replies. That was my first post to gearslutz and I'm surprised how quickly I got an answer. I do feel a bit stupid for not realizing that you take the line outs from the outboard mic-pre directly into the line inputs of the soundcard, thus bypassing the soundcard's mic-pre's altogether. So, I guess I don't need mic-pre's on my soundcard after all if I do decide to purchase a high-end outboard mic-pre. With that said, what soundcard (with no mic-pre's) would you guys recommend to go with a high-end outboard mic-pre?

[uncle duncan]

If you could find a used motu 2408 ar 828, and send it to Black Lion for the analog mod, you'd have good quality line ins, plus 2 mic pres, which sound pretty good after the mod. (Channels 1 & 2 have a mic pre, the rest are just line inputs.) The 2408 uses a PCI slot, and it has 3 banks of 8, giving you the capability of 24 channel i/o, but that would be using adat light pipe on the other two banks, or on all three if you wanted to. The 828 is firewire and has 2 banks. These are versitile boxes, and include adat sync, in case you ever end up working with a Alesis HD24 hard disk recorder. If you buy new you also get their audio software, but you still have to send the unit to Black Lion for the mod, because the sound quality of the stock units is questionable. I mean, it's on par with prosumer gear in that price range, but run a good mic pre into it and you lose a lot of what that good mic pre could give you if it was going through a decent line in audio circuit.

[ivankilowatt]

Another route you can take is buy a preamp with an A/D converter built in. It will probably give you better performance than using the A/D that's built into the computer. Both focusrite, and dbx (and I'm sure others)offer great sounding machines for under or around $500.00. And then, your keeping it in the digital relm right from the back of the mic pre.
Cool cool!

[avntgrd]

Thanks, Ivan. I've actually been reading the reviews for the API A2D and I think this is the route I will take. But let me get this straight, I take the digital out of the A2D and go into the digital in of the soundcard, correct? OK, but you mention $500 soundcards. Am I wrong in assuming the D/A of the $500 soundcards will lessen the quality of the signal captured by the A2D??? Is there a high-end soundcard that is specifically D/A?

[Kiwiburger]

I've just bought two API A2D, and love them. Using external A/D converters is about as necessary as using external mic preamps. Being able to buy respected high quality preamps and converters in the same box saves a lot of time and money and makes good sense.

If you only want to use two channels of input at once, a basic s/pdif digital input will suffice. An M-Audio Audiophile 2496 card will give you that.

But if you want to run a bunch of these, or use other digital boxes (reverbs, PODs, synths with s/pdif etc) then you need a multiple digital channel card. The industry standard is AES (which is like s/pdif over balanced XLR cables - you can run these cables for 500 feet or so, giving you plenty of professional options).

I have the Lynx AES16SRC card and it works great.

[electropoet]

Two things...as someone who's probably not a whole lot more knowledgable than you, I think the API you're looking at will knock your socks off. I used a Focusrite Penta and Rode NT1000 for several years and several albums and thought it was okay...finally got a good pre and mic and was blown away...so I guess the only bad thing for you is if you go big early you'll lose the benefit of struggling to get good recordings with bad gear...but its a loosing battle anyways...quality costs...along those lines...you are right to assume their is a link between cost and A/D conversion...as always...if you want the best A/D conversion....it will cost you an arm and a leg. But I think if you just need a way to get signal from the API (stereo inputs via SPDIF)...then a $500 soundcard with out to many bells and whistles would be just fine...i'd go RME as their stuff is great and the analog conversion is good, but i think you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference between that and a MOTU ultralite spdif input.

Just to add...the api takes care of the a/d conversion, but yes, I believe spdif inputs on different types of gear are of different quality...so you would not get the same resolution with a soundblaster SPDIF input as you would with a more high end input...but again, since the signal is already digital (courtesy of the API) the difference in input is not as dramatic as with analog a/d conversion...for obvious reasons.

[shapshankly]

another noobish question but, if you are using pramps with built in convertors to provide an AES digital input to your card, do you need to have a central clock controlling the timing of everything?