Tracking guitars to DAW: What have you learned that made them go from "ok" to "WOW"?

[Benmrx]

I wish I had an R121 for guitars, but I don't. I do however have a decent room to track in. One thing I started doing after getting the PTLE Music Production Toolkit (where stereo tracks are only counted as 1) was to use a close mic (SM57, SM81, PPA Ribbon), and a room mic (usually AT4033) pretty far away and compressed pretty good

These 2 mics come up as a stereo track (panned hard left and right). I'll get decent levels for both sides, then use the TRIM plug to back down on the room mic side till I've got the guitar where it needs to be in regards to the stereo field.

So if I want a guitar to sound like it's at 3 o'clock, I'll lower the room mic till it sounds that way. It works pretty good, and adds a good bit of depth the track.

It can sound really cool when the guitar player is using a delay pedal, because the room mic side (which has been compressed pretty good) will be dominate on the delay trails, so the sound will kind of pan itself from the close mic'd side to the room side as the delays die off.

[guittarzzan]

Thanks for all the info guys. I have another question for ya. I'm working on a song now that has 4 tracks of the same riff, 2 each panned hard L and R. I have a complementary guitar riff that's in the same freq range as the other guit tracks that I need to really come to the front and sizzle for a couple measures. What would you recommend? Would you notch out some freqs in the main guit tracks to give the complementary riff more room or what?

tks again.

[Brad McGowan]

For me it's:

1. Put the cab on an Auralex GRAMMA, which really clears up the low end mud
2. Use high quality instrument cables (Evidence Audio).
3. Pacifica
4. Using a FATSO to tame the transient fizz. Sometimes I engage some "warmth", sometimes I don't.
5. Having a nice assortment of tube amps in primo playing condition...most of them are modded and/or built by me.
6. Not monitoring too loud in the control room.

Brad

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by fuzzface777

hey ORoz got the DVD-thanks buddy!

Already? Great!!! I thought it was going to take longer. Enjoy it!

[Johnkenn]

For acoustics - two words... AKG 451

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by guittarzzan

Thanks for all the info guys. I have another question for ya. I'm working on a song now that has 4 tracks of the same riff, 2 each panned hard L and R. I have a complementary guitar riff that's in the same freq range as the other guit tracks that I need to really come to the front and sizzle for a couple measures. What would you recommend? Would you notch out some freqs in the main guit tracks to give the complementary riff more room or what?

I'd retrack the 'complimentry' riff with an ENTIRELY different sound that's more 'upfront' and pokes through. If you used a Les Paul & Vox on the main tracks, then grab a Tele and a Boogie or whatever so there's natural seperation between the tones.

If retracking isn't within the relm of possibilites then I'd do something to mangle the sound rather then resorting to or instantly grabbing EQ...maybe run the track through a set of headphones or some small fukked up sounding amp and record THAT tone.

Arrangement is pretty key too...maybe mute one of the two doubled guitars and have a L/R/C setup. It's tough to give advice when I can't hear it...

Anywhoo...after YEARS of tracking guitars directly to 2" tape going to a DAW isn't really a whole new animal, but some of the 'old' tricks really don't apply. Transformer input micamps are a MUST for either format, but in general...DAW guitars get printed a bit darker then tape because with tape some of the very top end will shed by the time the record heads into mix.

The big key (for me) to getting dirt rth guitars to sound 'right' coming off a DAW is adding a tiny bit of compression...so little, it's leveling. Pulling off maybe 2dB at 2:1 (if that) to soften things up a bit on the way in with something kinda thick & smooth...opto's and mu compressors work well.

I also leave lots of headroom on everything in digtal-land when tracking. My converters are calibrated so -16dBfs equals 0dBVU at +4. In practice we're printing guitars with a peak of around -10 or -8dBfs. Same goes for keys, vocals, horns...everything! I never push things up to peak. That's where the bad tone lives, things get hard & harsh...doesn't matter what microphone is in front of the amp at that point 'cause it's all gonna sound like poo.

[George Necola]

small condensors, SM57 and 421 and a distressor can make you sound good.

kickin those Marshallcabs down the drain made me feel better, and improved my sound 100times.

cheers

[84K]

Get the sound right at the amp. That is always key.

Then, do not rely on multi tracking to thicken up a 'thin' sounding guitar. The more you stack tracks the more flanging and the less natural it is to the amps tone. (unless you are making a cookie cutter album, then... stack away).

i find the key on the chain end is:

for marshall/mesa/soldano/bogner gainy rock... record a full stack. one mic on one speaker of the top cab, and one mic on one speaker of the bottom cab. I like a 421 on the top cab and a Trion 7000 on the bottom cab. The Trion is the best guitar amp mic I have ever used. Requires some eq, but it is the cat's jammy's. I LOVE the germanium eq by chandler for electric guitar. awesome. 2254 followed by the Pendulum Limiter on the end. The Pendulum limiter was a huge advancement in my guitar recording chain. Micpres vary.... Pendulum, Shep, Neve, or API usually.

[noize_organizer]

I usually go for a Sennheiser BlackFire 509 through a Quad8 248 pre-amp as a basis.
An additional Beta57 helps and sometimes a condenser (Neumann, Groove Tubes, or whatever) 1-1.5 meter away from the cab.
Positioning the mics right is crucial !
I tried the (not so) new Royer that was "made for guitar cabs" (can't remember the name-number) but sounded too smooth for me.
I still have to check the 121 ...

then, re-amping the DI signal (instead of re-playing - more accuracy) and a couple of mixing tricks (widening the stereo) and that's it, usually.

[daveseviltwin]

For really brutal guitars, i actually put a beta 52 right up on one of the speakers. Of course it just accents whatever else I'm using such as a 57 or 421. It's eq is really nasty around 5k and I just cut up that mic for some bite. I prefer dark and somewhat muddy for my own music but very often I have clients around here that are doing really heavy stuff and not using the best amp.

[RACKMAN]

1st have a great player with good sounding hands with out this the best amp in the world will sound broken. 2nd great amps vintage amps seem to sit the best in the mix vox's,fender,marshalls etc. for modern dirt modified marshalls. At this point 1 57 is all you might need w/a neve or api done. If you can't get a sound with just this then you are doing something wrong. Work on the mic placement .

[drBill]

if it's already on disc, and not quite there.........

Massey Tapehead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It'll put a smile on your face.

bp

[daveseviltwin]

Amen to Vintage amps and 57. I use a Fender Hot Rod Deville (not exactly vintage but great sound, even though it's a wee bit to loud) and a 57 as a primary combination for almost everything I do that's mine. Of course, I mentioned the beta 52 but only for brutal loud distortion. I really like the sound of a vintage Orange for my 70's guitar tone as well.

[guittarzzan]

How do you guys set up your ribbon mics for guits? Do you keep it back a foot or two or are you throwing it right up there like a 57? I have an AEA R84 that I had good luck with on a slight-gain lead tone, but I haven't tried it yet with the higher gain stuff. What do you guys recommend for ribbon mic placement with higher gain settings? (Think STP Core or maybe Nevermind)

tks.

[DAWgEAR]

R121 --> LA610

Buzz Feiten Tuning System + Peterson StroboStomp

Using less distortion that you think you need. Sometimes a lot less.

[NathanEldred]

Putting a 2" 16 track Ampex MM1200 in between the mic preamp and the DAW (seriously). I've got just about every piece of gear in my arsenal at one time or another (and really how hard is it to record a great guitarist with a great amp?), and it's the only thing that made me say "that's it" and made the ultimate diffrence. Not that it can't be great straight to the DAW, but it takes a lot of colored outboard gear and at least two microphones positioned a bit differently (for the sense of depth) to approach anywhere even close what tape does with just one microphone and a pretty simple signal path. Ribbons do help a lot too to digital, especially if the room is really good (because of the back side of the mic).

[lpkyer]

Originally Posted by 84K

The Pendulum limiter was a huge advancement in my guitar recording chain. .

which pendulum limiter?

[MadSkillzMan]

As mentioned, proper miking..though i went from dynamic to LDC, using smaller amps, isolated them, and tracked Double/Tripple per guitar, and panned each at different levels.

Makes me say all kindsa foul stuff everytime i hear it