Why no chinese ribbons?

[covert]

While I realize that the cachet of LDC mics is very high, I cannot figure out why nobody is having ribbon mics built in china. As best I understand things, it should be eaiser to do ribbons than to build good LDC capsules. And between Royer and AEA, the market is pretty solidly established. I'd happily pay a couple of hundred for a mic that was 50% to 90% of a Royer, or even one that was some serious competition for some of the Beyers. I know that there are a couple of relatively inexpensive Octavas, but they have an unusually nasty reputation, and aren't as cheap comparatively as the LDC units.

[GearGuy]

You are incorrect. It is more difficult to do a ribbon microphone than a LDC. Although at NAMM Nady was saying they were going to make it. All they had a an empty mic body though... no insides!


Also, ribbons can be really delicate. With the AEA mic for example, it but be stored horizontally or you'll stretch the ribbon too much. Shipping from China via boat? No thanks...

Buy a handcrafted microphone from AEA or Royer and you'll be very happy with your purchase. You always get what you pay for...

[MIKEHARRIS]

somehow the Beyer's make it over on a ship....i believe that once they have saturated the market with their LD's the Chinese will make a ribbon

[leckieisagod]

Maybe Studio Projects will make one. I've PM'd Alan Hyatt to see what he thinks.

[alanhyatt]

Studio Projects has been looking at Ribbons for some time now. I can say that we have tossed our hat into the playing field, but until we get a few other things finished, we will not start on them.

It is not difficult to do them, it is just more precision work.... Maybe end of year!

[Gone Fission]

My understanding of it is that Beyer's ribbon stock is quite different from that of the classic ribbon mics, maybe along the lines of the ribbons in the Fostex mics. Probably helps their longevity a bit.

The way I would do the Chinese ribbon mic thing is have the factory do the basic assembly, but have ribbon installed and tensioned in the western world. If the qc on the production is good, I don't see why this couldn't yield pretty great results with a good design. If it's to be in the SP line, I would seriously consider doing an active circuit like Royer and Oktava do (preferable the way Royer does it, which is to say good sounding) as a lot of folks would use this mic with lower quality pres and blame the Mackie on the mic. And I trust it'd be tastefully different looking from competing current products.

(Alan, feel free to bring my suggestions over to your forum for discussion if you want. Nothing wrong with more good sounding gear on the market.)

Bear

[alanhyatt]

Thanks Bear, you have watch those ribbon mics... Off axis is a bitch and popping the ribbon is another issue. We have a lot in mind, but time is short right now...

[covert]

My understanding is that the Beyer ribbons had less area corrugated, and some other shapeing in the center.

The assumption that a ribbon would be easier than an LDC is based on the ribbon only requiring tension on one axis, rather than several.

The AEA and Royer mics are very likely to be something I'd like a lot, but not a cost I can currently justify.

[chessparov]

With all due respect, "You always get what you pay for" sometimes includes the perceived "goodwill" of a name brand. For example, Sennheiser U87's-oops I mean Neumann U87ai's
are way overpriced IMHO for what you get nowadays.

I think Electro-Voice was very clever back when they designed a "regular" DYNAMIC microphone to sound just like a ribbon when they created the EV 666. It won't be as sexy of a buzzword as saying ribbon, but it's a heck of a lot more practical for many home and broadcasting applications IMHO. The EV 666 did boot out the the RCA 77 out of many radio and TV stations so they were successful as planned with it-enough to make so many the original die wore out! I've torture tested mine (high vocal SPL), and it works like champ.

Chris

P.S. If you get interested in the EV 666,
let me know via PM as there are some
fine points to getting a "good" one.

[Brad Lunde]

Originally posted by covert
While I realize that the cachet of LDC mics is very high, I cannot figure out why nobody is having ribbon mics built in china. <SNIP>

Covert: Not trying to pick on you, or make waves, but honestly, I'm curious. Why do you think that someone SHOULD build ribbons in China, other than you want them cheaper?
Brad

[GearGuy]

Originally posted by chessparov
With all due respect, "You always get what you pay for" sometimes includes the perceived "goodwill" of a name brand. For example, Sennheiser U87's-oops I mean Neumann U87ai's
are way overpriced IMHO for what you get nowadays.

Apples to Oranges... and not at all what I meant. I would never buy a U87, way overpriced IMHO. Even the U195 is by far a better value than a modern U87. Of course, YMMV. I have a client who is patiently waiting for his custom built, matched pair of U195s to arrive. All for a price only slightly above a single U87 with the shockmount! grudge So I'm in agreement with what you are saying.

However, Royers and AEAs are not overpriced microphones. They are also not mass produced microphones. What would the overseas equivalent ribbon mic have going for it? Lower price because of mass, automated production? Or simply cheaper if they are handmade for pennies on the hundred dollar bill?

The influx of inexpensive, overseas manufactured, condenser microphones (say that 5 times fast!) are the products of factories in China or wherever. The Royer products and the AEA products are not made in the same way. I would also speculate that they would sound better than a cheaper ribbon mic, in the same way that a great condenser mic blows away a cheaply made "equivalent."

[chessparov]

Thanks Gear for the clarification.
Yes I probably picked too easy of an example (U87ai).

Was pleasantly surprised, however, at the "chinese" Studio Projects T3 at NAMM. It certainly wasn't "blown away" by the top flight Manley Gold Reference, the Telefunken USA U47/C12/251 repro's I tried on my voice there. The Manley, Tele 251, and T3 were so close (in their own way) that they would need a strong pro AE like yourself to pick which one for me on a specific track.

The Telefunken USA C12 is clearly not a cheap mic, yet it was a clear loser to the T3 in my case. Their U47 might be extremely close to a "real" U47 as I could hear some sibilance on it which is reputed to be typical for many singers with this microphone,
when not used in conjunction with a de-esser.

It's understood by yours truly that intelligent people will still pay more for brands like AEA, Royer, et al as they have a certain "sound" that's desired for one reason or another.
And I have a great respect for those trying to keep the "ribbon sound" going.

At the same time IMHO it makes sense to try out budget models because you never know...

Anyhow, do you guys think the marketing of a dynamic mic soundalike to a ribbon has some merit?

Chris

[covert]

Originally posted by Brad Lunde
Covert: Not trying to pick on you, or make waves, but honestly, I'm curious. Why do you think that someone SHOULD build ribbons in China, other than you want them cheaper?
Brad

I'm not sure that I think it ought to happen, rather I'm mildly surprised that it hasn't happened. The market for ribbons is obviously there, perhaps revitalized by Royer and AEA.

As far as what I want, I want everything cheaper. I'm on a cusp between hobbyist and pro. The jump to pro would be easier if some of the things I think I need were less expensive. Especially real estate.

[caughtup]

Hi y'all this whole ribbon discussion reminds me of the rave review a devotee of Earthworks gave me on the FOSTEX printed ribbon. He told me to buy one if I ever see one.. I haven't has anyone else heard this mic and is it that good AND... why did they stop making it??!!
"I've got Earthworks on my mind....:
Jeff
PS.
I personally have something against the manufacture of cheap knockoffs from other countries but that's my hangup.. doesn't have to be yours.

[Gone Fission]

Last I heard, Fostex still has two ribbon models in production. They don't really promote them.

Bear

[caughtup]

Hi Bear, any hint or knowledge of the models?? o yeah for the fostex ribbons I mean........
thanks for that info I hope it's true I'll poke around too.
Jeff

[GuruInSpace]

they are very busy making chinese cookies. har har!