Wo knows about mesa boogie amps?

[makoto]

Hello all,
I am not sure the right spot to put this post, feel free to relocate it needed.

I am going to add a mesa boogie amp to the studio, I am looking at a mark IIB, Mark IIC+ or a mark III ...can anyone tell me about these?

Many Thanks
Makoto

[jbuntz]

These are the Mesas that are actually usable. The higher the number, the more features and the longer it takes you to get you tone, but the more choices you have. The mark IV lets you use two sets of tubes of power tubes which you can run simultaneously or set by set in class A or AB, triode or pentode. I haven't had much experience first hand with the IIc or III but I think they are quite similar. The IIc is a classic amp used by people from Santana to James Hetfield.

[BattleAngel]

Well the Mark IIC+ is the amp that made James Hetfield's tone really famous, it was the main amp of John Petrucci too. The Mark I is what sealed the deal for Santana's sound for a number of years (it's almost as much his signature as his PRS guitars). The Mark III was the amp of choice for Blue Murder.

That said, they are tricky amps to dial in and are said to be somewhat inconsistant from example to example. I'm personally not a fan of the Mesa sound/feel. You either love em or hate em, and I'm in the latter camp. But it is certainly a distinct sound and generally looks good on a gear list.

I think there are better amps out there by a lot, but a Mesa for your studio is never a bad investment. I'd buy a Rivera Knucklehead too.

[faeflora]

I've got the following for sale:

Mesa Valvetronix preamp - $900
Mesa 395 power amp - $700

[BattleAngel]

actually about the best amp rig I've ever heard for metal gain was a rack rig based around a Peavey RockMaster preamp (insane gain) and a Mesa 2:90 power amp. What I heard that rig do was pretty unbelievable.

[preben]

The Mark III's were marketed as having a Fender/Boogie clean sound, a Marshall crunch sound and Boogie's own hi gain lead sound. IMHO if you already have the Fender/Marshall area covered the Mark II's are more out-and-out Boogies soundwise: more creamy sounding on the lead channel and equally Fendery on the clean channel.

Mark IIB was the choice of Larry Carlton for his earlier solo albums. Not an in vogue kind of sound I suppose but still nice. The Mark II's would probably also be the more collectible than the Mark III if that means anything to you. Make sure it has a Electrovoice 12" and if you're going for sounds rather than looks avoid the hardwood ones. The wood isn't the only thing that's harder - the sound is as well.

And if you can get one with a graphic eq that might be an idea as well. Due to the Fender-nature of the design (the tone controls coming before the gain stages - as opposed to for instance a Marshall) even the smallest amount of bass makes the amp 'fart' quite a bit and a common Boogie-trick is to roll the bass control back and compensate for the lack of low end on the graphic.

[natpub]

I used the Mark IV for a few years, and it is a fine all-around amp. However, don't be mislead if you are looking for the classic rectifier sound that you hear on so many of the grunge and neo-metal stuff these days. The Mark series are all fairly limited in the heavy area. They get a great giant crunch sound, but it is NOT the dual rec sound that many have come to associate with Mesa.

If you really want an All-Around rig that has all the Mark series sounds AND the rectifier sounds, check out the Mesa Triaxis preamp with the Stereo 2/90 power amp (mentioned above), rack system, and a 4x12 celestion cab, slant top. That is the rig I have now used for the past 6 years or so, and it is astonishing and can always produce pretty much any sound I or my clients need.

regards,

kurt t.

[subspace]

My studio rig is a Triaxis pre with a Simul-class 395 power amp as well, a cool all-rounder.
If you've already got Fenders and Marshalls in the studio, I'd add the Mk. IIC+. That was close to the peak of the original Boogie lead tone, before they began shooting for maximum diversity of sounds rather than doing one thing really well.

[Jay Kahrs]

Of those I'd have to vote for the Mark II. They're also getting kinda expensive these days, I just saw a pretty beat head for close to $1K. If you're not dead set on a Boogie there's lots of other stuff out there for the same price. My personal guitar rig is a Rivera Rake Reverb head with a Rivera 2x12 cab, loaded with Greenbacks. Yum Yum. Good stuff, but not high gain or 'modern' sounding. I've played a couple of different Riveras and didn't like any of them as much as the Rake which is a bit softer and thicker sounding. Not quite as articulate and sharp as the Knucklehead or a Dual Recto but that's what I like about it. Their Chubster combo is also pretty nifty and if you like the Mark II sound you might want to look at it.

[tenton]

Good posts all. I've owned (and sadly sold) an old Mark I, a Mark IIB, and a Quad Preamp. I currently own a Mark IV, which I'm about to sell because I bought a Triaxis, and a Blue Angel and a Maverick to boot.

No, I don't have a Mesa lust problem. Really....

The Mark series are really variations on a theme. The higher number you go I->IV, the tighter the tone tends to be. This can be good or bad depending on your preference.

The I's and II's have the best clean tones IMHO.

They all have great overdrive. The I tends to be the most classic/vintage sounding, the IIb is great for blues but can still crank, the IIc+ purportedly adds some extra harmonic richness, the III always sounded a bit cheese metal for my taste and the IV can get a really nice, rich, full but tight lead/overdrive sound.

You should definately look into a Mark IV. They are very versatile as mentioned, with the ability to swap tubes, power ratings, class A, etc. OTOH, as mentioned they take quite a bit of time to figure out how to get the most out of them.

In the end, it depends on the style(s) of music you intend to use it for.

Let us know what you decide.

[tenton]

You should check out this forum for more good info:

http://pub61.ezboard.com/bmesaboogieampforum77319

[covert]

There's definitely some variation amp to amp, but that's true of most lines. I have two Mk II's, and they are rather different sounding. One is closer to the Fender camp. The MkIII series was the first to offer simulclass. If I could only have one amp, it'd still be opne of these. And while dialing in very specific sounds might be tricky, dialing up something good is pretty easy. I did some heavy AB listening against a VHT pitbull, that I was considering buying, and found I could get happy much faster with the Boogies. I'll also second Jay's Rivera comment, among the best things I've heard recently was a Knucklehead.

[pieter]

I have owned a Mark III, Studio 22, Quad + 395, Mark IV and Maverick. Of course being a gearslut, I sold all to find what I thought at the time was ultimate tone (Vintage Fenders, Soldano, Vox, Matchless were all bought and sold).

Anyway, what the Boogies are concerned, the ones I liked best were the Mark III (pure tone without too many options) and the Maverick (lower wattage so great to overload the power amp).

As always it all depends the syle of music. As a general rule I find that for the super clean tones, the mark series boogies are great whereas for overdriven sounds I somewhat prefer the Rectifier ones (incl Blue angel and Maverick).

Hope this helps

[Rmorph]

Two words: Studio pre.

Can be picked up for less than 300 dollars on ebay, and imho is the only mesa pre that sounds good straight into the desk.

For info:
I used to have a markIIc on the road, but since I stopped gigging have not found a valid reason to have it in the studio. The SP gives me what I need.
I found that studio miking the markIIc could be be a hit and miss affair because of the quick saturation of the sound - everything came out very edgy, which is great if edgy is what you want, but I like an amp that can do a few more tricks than sonic soaring and power riffs (I guess I got old).
In short: live she was sweet, but in studio I could dial better sounds through the pre direct (also through fx chain of engl 50w combo - a nice if rough sound) than anything I tried with the mesa amp.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get a mighty rectifier or Mark-something-sweet for the clients to stroke, but for very little extra money, consider getting a studio pre to add to your rack.
It's possible to dial in some incredible sounds through these.


Now just becuase the subject is there:
Are you sure you want a mesa? Imho thats a lot of bucks that can get you something boutique and unique.
I second the Knucklehead vote. Also: I have heard very good things coming out of a hotcat (www.badcat-amps.com). This is the matchless team back in action.

Cheers,

M.

[wurly]

Mesa has serious QC problems. My informant in Guitar Center management says that 50% of their amps are DOA when new out of the box.

I have a Mesa bass amp that took six months to get working right. That baby hit local service twice and then required a trip to the factory.

Last night I saw that the guitarist in a band that I work with had a Mesa amp instead of his usual rig. I asked if he bought it new or used. When he said that it was new, I asked, "how come it works?" .

The answer? It's already been in the shop.

But I'm not a Mesa hater. I'm even shopping for one now. Just thought you should know what you're getting into.

YMMV

wurly
Latch Lake Music

[Meriphew]

I have a Mesa Blue Angel head that I bought new about 6-7 years ago. I've never had a single problem with it. It's an incredible sounding amp for clean to dirty sounds, and it loves fx pedals. Here's a link where you read reviews by owners of various Mesa/Boogie amps.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/Mesa_Boogie/

[jbuntz]

Blue Angels are cool too albeit kind of a one trick pony. They should have called them Dual Recs because their tone has NOTHING to do with their other amps. It probably deterred alot of people who would actually like them from even pluggin in one. It's a little bit like a matchless.

[Meriphew]

Originally posted by jbuntz
Blue Angels are cool too albeit kind of a one trick pony. They should have called them Dual Recs because their tone has NOTHING to do with their other amps. It probably deterred alot of people who would actually like them from even pluggin in one. It's a little bit like a matchless.

Good call. They are similar in sound to a Matchless DC30. I was torn between buying one of the two, and the Blue Angel's sound was so close to the Matchless that I couldn't justify paying the extra $2k for the Matchless.

[wavcatcher]

Wow, the remarks about current Mesa QC were very surprising to me. I've had no trouble with my Mavrick that I've had a few years now. I bought it from a good friend of mine who is a Mesa dealer and he has had very few problems with Mesa amps and sells a fair amount of them.


On the other hand, I constantly have Marshalls and Fenders die in sessions and then the players ask to use my Mavrick. For most rock blues and jazz the Mavrick covers it, if you want nu metal (or however the h@ll that is spelled) you got to go double triple rectifier delux or something.

So that's my Mesa quality cheerleading for the day!

[drundall]

Around here GC doesn't carry much Mesa gear. Maybe that's what the badmouthing stems from. I'm sure Mesa has some choice words for Guitar Center.

I work with a guitarist who has been using Mesa amps for over 15 years. He has some poorly cared for amps that work well and sound great.

Many people feel the myriad knobs and switches make it hard to dial up a sound on a Mesa. Others love 'em for precisely that reason...

[Gone Fission]

Printed circuit boards bolted to the chasis with rigid standoffs, board mounted tube sockets, and tubes dangling in the back wave of the speaker, coupled with high gain and high power, have made the classic Boogies tempermental for years. Squeals and oscillations were described as par for the course in the owners manual. If the amps are physically seperated from the speakers (preferrably not stacked on top of a speaker cab, either), these issues pretty well subside. Don't know if there are seperate quality issues at play recently.

Bear

[faeflora]

I have a 2:100 power amp into a marshall 1960 w/ 75 watt celestions and it sounds great particularly with a vox tonelab or a pod.

[ampguy]

but my favorite is my trentino custom amp with seperate OTs for SE Class A (~33W or so) and PP (~100W modes).

It has variable tone stack options, so it can nail fender tweed, blackface, and d*mble tones, and selectable presence options including 2 vibrato modes, 3 tone switchable OD gain, switchable preamp gain stage, and reverb. It weighs a ton though.

[wurly]

The comment regarding Mesa products hitting the store with a 50% DOA rate came from management at a store that currently has a large stock of MESA products, not an angry store that MESA won't ship to. That comment was made one year ago, and MESA has still not improved their quality one bit.

My MESA amp came new out of the box with a boat-load of problems.

It amused me greatly to see the "inspection" tag festooned with the initials of totally incompetent inspectors.

My amp had tube sockets that weren't even soldered!!!!!!!

My MESA required three service trips to get it to work although I bought it new in the box.

My old Marshalls and Fenders and Ampegs have never crapped out in a session. My Mesa has never crapped out in a session either, but it took six months to get it to work initially.

I said 50% of MESA stuff doesn't work when new. That means that half of them do work. For those lucky enough to get a good one right away, good for you. That doesn't negate the experience of the unfortunates that get the 50% of their product that doesn't work.

Yes they make some good working and sounding products, and they make a hell of a lot of defective crap also.

wurly
in the snow

[drundall]

Wow, I guess I know 6 or 7 incredibly lucky people.

Is is a specific model that they're having trouble with?

[wurly]

My GC informant advises me that the problems occur in most MESA tube products.

He said that 90% of the trouble is bad tubes.

The other 10% is bad soldering and bad power supplies.

And by the way, my informant is the proud user of the 400 watt Mesa bass power amp, and during the phone call where I got this information, I just bought the 600 watt Mesa M2000 bass head. So we're not Mesa haters.

By the way, the M2000 bass head was just discontinued and "devalued" by GC, so I just bought a $1699 bass head for $799. I'm sure there's a few other M2000's in the GC chain for any other interested Gearslutz.

The Mesa "Nomad" 55w. 4-10 gtr amp was also discontinued and is discounted to less than half price also.

JR wurly
Latch Lake Music