2" Tape is dead long live Pro Tools!!!

2" Tape sucks! · 11th October 2002, 09:13 PM

I am wondering what the ultimate chain of gear is to get the best possible sound into Pro Tools HD. Mic, Preamp, Eq, Compressor/Limiter, Tape emulation device, A/D and finally D/A for monitoring?:)

2" Tape..........rollz

Neve Sucks! · 11th October 2002, 09:15 PM

2"

Long live Crrrrrrrrrranesong !!!!!!

11th October 2002, 09:18 PM

Just buy

A cranesong Spider (does it operate as a stereo DA?)

And you will rock!

Brad Blackwood · 11th October 2002, 09:26 PM

Funny how you say tape is dead then ask for a tape emulation device...

2" Tape sucks! · 11th October 2002, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jules
Just buy

A cranesong Spider (does it operate as a stereo DA?)

And you will rock!

My setup PT HD3, 192 I/O, TC M6000 with MD3, Rosendahl Sync, Midi I/O, Roland XV5080, Triton Rack, Yamha EX5R, Yamaha AN1x, Yamaha CDR1000, Roister Active monitors, Dynaudio M1 monitors, Furman signal router, Daking micpre/Eq, Daking Compressor/Limiter, Apple G4 Dual 800 Mhz, 300 GB Hardrives 15000 rpm, 2*22" cinema display and alot of Bogner, VHT and Earnie ball guitars........

kushan_ku · 11th October 2002, 09:40 PM

Brad you totally cracked me up ...

rollz grggt

Neve Sucks! · 11th October 2002, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
Funny how you say tape is dead then ask for a tape emulation device...

The tape sound is not dead, just the format.....

etherize · 11th October 2002, 09:51 PM

Hey 2" Tape sucks! and Neve Sucks! Just wanted to tell you I ran into our close friend Sex Sucks! and she said hi!

Neve Sucks! · 11th October 2002, 09:55 PM

[quote]Originally posted by etherize
[b]Hey 2" Tape sucks! and Neve Sucks! Just wanted to tell you I ran into our close friend Sex Sucks! and she said hi!
grggt

Charles Dye · 11th October 2002, 10:23 PM

One of my favorite chains is AKG C12VR --> Focusrite Red One --> Distressor --> Pultec EQP-1A --> 192 I/O

Doesn't work for eveything (obviously), and it's not cheap, but it does sound great. For a cleaner EQ sound I might use a Focusrite ISA 110 for the EQ (and probably the pre as well, it's supposed to be the exact same pre).

I love the combination of the warmth of the C12VR with the clarity of the Red One. The sound has a rich low and low mid, with a very open top end, without being overly bright or hypie. I've used this chain for vocals many times, as well as acoustic guitar, trumpet, and all types of percussion. A pretty versatile combination actually.

C.Lambrechts · 11th October 2002, 11:01 PM

Hey Charles .... nice to see you hangin' out here..... hope to see you as a regular .....

2" Tape sucks! · 11th October 2002, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charles Dye
One of my favorite chains is AKG C12VR --> Focusrite Red One --> Distressor --> Pultec EQP-1A --> 192 I/O

Doesn't work for eveything (obviously), and it's not cheap, but it does sound great. For a cleaner EQ sound I might use a Focusrite ISA 110 for the EQ (and probably the pre as well, it's supposed to be the exact same pre).

I forgot my Manley Ref-C mic, Focusrite ISA 430, Summit Audio MPC-100A, Oxford EQ with The GML option for Pro-Tools.

I can not get a good vocal or acoustic guitar sound through my ISA 430?!?

The ISA 430 is great on bass and Electric & Distorted guitars, so Ido not know if i should keep this piece or not. My summit MPC-100A feels like everithing put through it gets soft and muddy, but the compressor is extremely fast for being a hybrid with tubes. So maybee this piece of gear will be sold to. Daking on the other hand is extremely good sounding on Vocals and Aucoustic guitars, but sounds like crap on electric & distorted guitars?!?

So the million dollar question is to sell or to keep?

2" Tape sucks! · 11th October 2002, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
Funny how you say tape is dead then ask for a tape emulation device...

Actually Brad my point is the format sucks compared to the editng capabillities that comes with the PT-territory. The sound from a really good 2" Studer is fantastic, but todays production requiers more channels. PT HD 128 voices, I actually used them all on my last production for Zomba/MFN. I used the Cranesong Hedd on the mastering for that album it has this fantastic Tape emulation that is really good and made the whole mix sound alot more musical on the top and with that really good "analog" energy in the lows. I have been working with 2" alot but I am soooooooooo tired of waiting on the rewind and play on the takes.

Anyway do you have any suggestions on the ISA 430 I have?

thethrillfactor · 11th October 2002, 11:43 PM

Getting rid of it is going to be harder than you think. The whole Focusrite fascination had died out by now(They also did it to themselves). I say keep it as a glorified direct box...similar to the Manley Voxbox.

Quote:

Originally posted by 2" Tape sucks!

.

Anyway do you have any suggestions on the ISA 430 I have?

C.Lambrechts · 11th October 2002, 11:52 PM

oh btw .... to get to the original topic .... although a 100% ProTools HD guy myself - with outboard (allways feel like adding that) - I do not think 2 inch is dead at all. I think it is there to stay. Best of both worlds is my ideal (yet expensive) one day dream come true studio.

my prefered chain for a lot of stuff is : mic into avalon AD2022 - possibly through a neve 9098 for eq - tubetech CL1B (get's often left out though .... kinda like to record without compression.)and into the 192 i/o

Dave Martin · 11th October 2002, 11:52 PM

So what's up with posting under a new name with every thread? Neve sucks, 2" tape sucks? Assuming that the name you post under is not your real name (like many of us here), shouldn't you be looking for something that says who you are rather than who you're not?

If it helps, my vocal chain into PT (or Radar, or DA-78 or tape) is either a Great River NV or a Vintech X73 into a Tube Tech CL-1B or an LA-2A.

It's not storage format dependent, but simply whoat I feel like using for a particular singer.

etherize · 11th October 2002, 11:57 PM

"One of my favorite chains is AKG C12VR --> Focusrite Red One --> Distressor --> Pultec EQP-1A --> 192 I/O"

Interesting he is using the Distressor on voice... I thought most here seem to think that vocal compression is it's weakest use?

I guess I'll buy a used one and see how it works out for me...

Between the distressor and the new Sony Compressor i should be set no?

2" Tape sucks! · 12th October 2002, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Martin
So what's up with posting under a new name with every thread? Neve sucks, 2" tape sucks? Assuming that the name you post under is not your real name (like many of us here), shouldn't you be looking for something that says who you are rather than who you're not?

2" Tape sucks! and Neve Sucks! are two different persons, even though we come from the same country, Sweden.

So should I sell the ISA 430 and by more Cranesong gear or what?

Brad Blackwood · 12th October 2002, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2" Tape sucks!
Actually Brad my point is the format sucks compared to the editng capabillities that comes with the PT-territory. The sound from a really good 2" Studer is fantastic, but todays production requiers more channels.

Sure, but some people still insist on sound quality over anything else. Virtually every project recorded at Ardent in the last few years has been to 2" Studer machines. We're not doing 'N'Sync' here - it's all rock-n-roll - but trust me, 2" is alive and well. Heck, our 16 track headstack is in seemingly constant use.

If you need more than 23 tracks, we'll roll a second or third machine in for you...

Quote:

Anyway do you have any suggestions on the ISA 430 I have?

Umm, sorry, no. I don't care for Focuswrong gear...

2" Tape sucks! · 12th October 2002, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad Blackwood

Sure, but some people still insist on sound quality over anything else. Virtually every project recorded at Ardent in the last few years has been to 2" Studer machines. We're not doing 'N'Sync' here - it's all rock-n-roll - but trust me, 2" is alive and well. Heck, our 16 track headstack is in seemingly constant use.

If you need more than 23 tracks, we'll roll a second or third machine in for you...

Thanx for the tip, but it is a little to expensive for me to have 5 Studer 22" tape machine i could by alot of cranesongs 192 Hedd's.

And actually my last project was not N'Sync but Losthorizon, check out this web site www.oncelosthorizon.com

Losthorizon is a

band with a

sound and with fast driving

that will make you feel

2" Tape sucks! · 12th October 2002, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jules
Just buy

A cranesong Spider (does it operate as a stereo DA?)

And you will rock!

Just saw your studio, what do you think about the Eventide Orville?
I am working part time "just because I am such a Gearslut" as a consultant for www.goldenagemusic.se that is the largest Pro-Audio whloesaler in Scandinavia.
And we are actually having the Eventide, Cranesong, Royer, Pro-Tools...... and all the best products you can imagine.

It would be interesting to compare prices.

So much gear so little cash!!!

Jax · 12th October 2002, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2" Tape sucks!
I am wondering what the ultimate chain of gear is to get the best possible sound into Pro Tools HD. Mic, Preamp, Eq, Compressor/Limiter, Tape emulation device, A/D and finally D/A for monitoring?:)

2" Tape..........rollz

The equipment you mention having is pretty good stuff. If there isn't an ultimate chain in there, maybe you're tired or unimpressed with the sounds you're getting? While I see high end pieces in your list, I don't see anything that screams character (unless you own one of the HEDD's you mentioned).

So yes, Cranesong (anything and everything), Great River NV, Drawmer 1969, Distressor(s), an API 3124 rack, Manley Massive Passive, etc, etc - put them all on your short list. Look around the forums here for awhile and you'll see plenty more pieces that can develop that ultimate chain with attitiude.

Depends entirely on what you would consider the ultimate chain if you heard it, though. You might hate the attitude approach, you might love it. Hell, you might already be doing it! More info.

Oh yeah the TCsys6000 you have... kind of a boring, clinical sounding reverb compared to the 960L in my opinion. Meanwhile, the various sampling reverbs out there sound like the spaces they represent, so while they're great, they don't always have much character. They add space but not necessarily character.

My 2 cents.

alphajerk · 12th October 2002, 02:35 AM

i would like a 2" 16 track. maybe a 2" 8 track. 24 is too many for 2". i mean we are talkin about the ULTIMATE sound right? if you got more than 16 on a 2"... talk to the hand.

kushan_ku · 12th October 2002, 02:48 AM

I've heard that about distressors but have been quite pleased with the results in my vocal chain with louder rock male vocalists. I even like the 10:1 Opto "la-2a" setting. Ooh you

crush

so

good

.

Charles Dye · 12th October 2002, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by etherize
Interesting he is using the Distressor on voice... I thought most here seem to think that vocal compression is it's weakest use? I guess I'll buy a used one and see how it works out for me...

Etherize,

Actually, I was choosing a single chain that would be versatile enough to record many different sources. I have used the Distressor (in LA-2A emulation mode) to record vocals and it sounds pretty good. But, my preference for vocals is the real thing: an LA-2A.

Chris,
Thank's for the greeting. I plan to be hanging around.

vudoo · 12th October 2002, 06:02 AM

Charles,

What's your typical chain for drums during tracking AND mix down ??? Do you still rely on ouboard during mixing or only during tracking ??
I do a fair amount of drums for record label and movie score. I'm still trying to find the ultimate set up that i can be satisfied with for the majority of the sessions.
I just bought a few Daking and they are absolutely superb for drums...the EQ's are also GREAT. I'm still checking out different compressors, i already have a couple distressors and a Joe Meek SC2. What do you all think ?? Suggestions ?? Thanks

Wiggy Neve Slut · 12th October 2002, 02:33 PM

I have found that in more case than not... A neve 1073 or 10XX is good fro more than 90% of things. Granted i dont do any sophisticated modern R & B ( what a crime it is to even call this a genre this!!!) or hip Hop (really want to tho cos most hip hoppers here dont have a clue how to engineer!!)

So with a neve or 'Neve alike' and a 1176 or LA2A its a fully bitchin chain that you really cant go wrong with in any case. A distressor is WAY more felxible and you can do a lot more with them but i find that they can make things kinda 'pokey' on vocals (even tho the 10:1 opto setting is nice) that just me tho!

But i keep hearing cranesong cranesong etc yada yada... so they is gota be worth a sniff whenever the dealer gets them in!

So just buy something you can live with and know that it will do what you want when u want.. dont listen to us boast and cream our jeans over our favourite signal chains cos everyone is different and i can guarantee their are SO many bitchin signal paths to choose from these days. dont settle for the 'emperors new clothes' syndrome! u be tha boss cos u gotta pay for ya toys!!!!!!

PEACE
Wiggy

groundcontrol · 12th October 2002, 06:11 PM

Ditto above post. Especially the Neve 10xx and 1176 partr!

Ciao,yuktyy

thethrillfactor · 12th October 2002, 06:42 PM

Uh...no. The vocals are the trickiest to record. I particularly do not like the Distressor on vocals unless something else is in front. I think the best comps for tracking vocals right now are:
1) EAR 660 2)LA2A 3)GML 8900 4)Focusrite Blue 230 5)CL1B 6)TLA-100 and sometimes a Vari-Mu. One of these should cover at least one of your singers. I have them all

(including a Distressor) so its easier to pick and choose.

Quote:

Originally posted by etherize
"One of my favorite chains is AKG C12VR --> Focusrite Red One --> Distressor --> Pultec EQP-1A --> 192 I/O"

Between the distressor and the new Sony Compressor i should be set no?

12th October 2002, 07:23 PM

"I think the best comps for tracking vocals right now are:
1) EAR 660 2)LA2A 3)GML 8900 4)Focusrite Blue 230 5)CL1B 6)TLA-100 and sometimes a Vari-Mu. One of these should cover at least one of your singers. I have them all(including a Distressor) so its easier to pick and choose."

I'm moving in with you!

Milk, one sugar, no calls before 11am and what time is dinner?

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11th October 2002, 09:13 PM	#1
2" Tape sucks! Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 73	2" Tape is dead long live Pro Tools!!! I am wondering what the ultimate chain of gear is to get the best possible sound into Pro Tools HD. Mic, Preamp, Eq, Compressor/Limiter, Tape emulation device, A/D and finally D/A for monitoring?:) 2" Tape..........rollz

11th October 2002, 09:26 PM	#4
Brad Blackwood Craneslut Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The home of Rock-n-Roll, Memphis, TN Posts: 1,767	Funny how you say tape is dead then ask for a tape emulation device... __________________ Brad Blackwood euphonic masters "What do I buy and how do I set it?"

11th October 2002, 09:40 PM	#6
kushan_ku Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 67	Brad you totally cracked me up ... rollz grggt rollz grggt

11th October 2002, 10:23 PM	#10
Charles Dye FX smörgåsbord user Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 883	One of my favorite chains is AKG C12VR --> Focusrite Red One --> Distressor --> Pultec EQP-1A --> 192 I/O Doesn't work for eveything (obviously), and it's not cheap, but it does sound great. For a cleaner EQ sound I might use a Focusrite ISA 110 for the EQ (and probably the pre as well, it's supposed to be the exact same pre). I love the combination of the warmth of the C12VR with the clarity of the Red One. The sound has a rich low and low mid, with a very open top end, without being overly bright or hypie. I've used this chain for vocals many times, as well as acoustic guitar, trumpet, and all types of percussion. A pretty versatile combination actually. __________________ Turn Me Up!™ – Bringing Dynamics Back to Music (TurnMeUp.org) Facebook \| MiLaR Forum \| MySpace \| MiLaR \| PSN \| Projects \| MiLaR Workshop

11th October 2002, 09:15 PM	#2
Neve Sucks! Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 277	2" Long live Crrrrrrrrrranesong !!!!!!

11th October 2002, 09:18 PM	#3
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	Just buy A cranesong Spider (does it operate as a stereo DA?) And you will rock!

11th October 2002, 09:51 PM	#8
etherize Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 243	Hey 2" Tape sucks! and Neve Sucks! Just wanted to tell you I ran into our close friend Sex Sucks! and she said hi!

11th October 2002, 09:55 PM	#9
Neve Sucks! Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 277	[quote]Originally posted by etherize [b]Hey 2" Tape sucks! and Neve Sucks! Just wanted to tell you I ran into our close friend Sex Sucks! and she said hi! grggt

11th October 2002, 11:01 PM	#11
C.Lambrechts Lives for gear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ans (Liege) Belgium Posts: 3,214	Hey Charles .... nice to see you hangin' out here..... hope to see you as a regular ..... __________________ Chris Lambrechts MiLaR Event ITB or OTB ... Who cares .... it's all about MIXING.

11th October 2002, 11:52 PM	#15
C.Lambrechts Lives for gear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ans (Liege) Belgium Posts: 3,214	oh btw .... to get to the original topic .... although a 100% ProTools HD guy myself - with outboard (allways feel like adding that) - I do not think 2 inch is dead at all. I think it is there to stay. Best of both worlds is my ideal (yet expensive) one day dream come true studio. my prefered chain for a lot of stuff is : mic into avalon AD2022 - possibly through a neve 9098 for eq - tubetech CL1B (get's often left out though .... kinda like to record without compression.)and into the 192 i/o __________________ Chris Lambrechts MiLaR Event ITB or OTB ... Who cares .... it's all about MIXING.

11th October 2002, 11:52 PM	#16
Dave Martin Moderator emeritus Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 3,170	So what's up with posting under a new name with every thread? Neve sucks, 2" tape sucks? Assuming that the name you post under is not your real name (like many of us here), shouldn't you be looking for something that says who you are rather than who you're not? If it helps, my vocal chain into PT (or Radar, or DA-78 or tape) is either a Great River NV or a Vintech X73 into a Tube Tech CL-1B or an LA-2A. It's not storage format dependent, but simply whoat I feel like using for a particular singer. __________________ Dave Martin Java Jive Studio www.javajivestudio.com Cuppa Joe Records www.cuppajoerecords.com Nashville, TN

11th October 2002, 11:57 PM	#17
etherize Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 243	"One of my favorite chains is AKG C12VR --> Focusrite Red One --> Distressor --> Pultec EQP-1A --> 192 I/O" Interesting he is using the Distressor on voice... I thought most here seem to think that vocal compression is it's weakest use? I guess I'll buy a used one and see how it works out for me... Between the distressor and the new Sony Compressor i should be set no?

12th October 2002, 02:35 AM	#23
alphajerk There is only one Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: asheville NC Posts: 5,291	i would like a 2" 16 track. maybe a 2" 8 track. 24 is too many for 2". i mean we are talkin about the ULTIMATE sound right? if you got more than 16 on a 2"... talk to the hand.

12th October 2002, 02:48 AM	#24
kushan_ku Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 67	I've heard that about distressors but have been quite pleased with the results in my vocal chain with louder rock male vocalists. I even like the 10:1 Opto "la-2a" setting. Ooh you crush so good .

12th October 2002, 06:02 AM	#26
vudoo Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 458	Charles, What's your typical chain for drums during tracking AND mix down ??? Do you still rely on ouboard during mixing or only during tracking ?? I do a fair amount of drums for record label and movie score. I'm still trying to find the ultimate set up that i can be satisfied with for the majority of the sessions. I just bought a few Daking and they are absolutely superb for drums...the EQ's are also GREAT. I'm still checking out different compressors, i already have a couple distressors and a Joe Meek SC2. What do you all think ?? Suggestions ?? Thanks

12th October 2002, 02:33 PM	#27
Wiggy Neve Slut Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,843	I have found that in more case than not... A neve 1073 or 10XX is good fro more than 90% of things. Granted i dont do any sophisticated modern R & B ( what a crime it is to even call this a genre this!!!) or hip Hop (really want to tho cos most hip hoppers here dont have a clue how to engineer!!) So with a neve or 'Neve alike' and a 1176 or LA2A its a fully bitchin chain that you really cant go wrong with in any case. A distressor is WAY more felxible and you can do a lot more with them but i find that they can make things kinda 'pokey' on vocals (even tho the 10:1 opto setting is nice) that just me tho! But i keep hearing cranesong cranesong etc yada yada... so they is gota be worth a sniff whenever the dealer gets them in! So just buy something you can live with and know that it will do what you want when u want.. dont listen to us boast and cream our jeans over our favourite signal chains cos everyone is different and i can guarantee their are SO many bitchin signal paths to choose from these days. dont settle for the 'emperors new clothes' syndrome! u be tha boss cos u gotta pay for ya toys!!!!!! PEACE Wiggy

12th October 2002, 06:11 PM	#28
groundcontrol Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 504	Ditto above post. Especially the Neve 10xx and 1176 partr! Ciao,yuktyy

12th October 2002, 07:23 PM	#30
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	"I think the best comps for tracking vocals right now are: 1) EAR 660 2)LA2A 3)GML 8900 4)Focusrite Blue 230 5)CL1B 6)TLA-100 and sometimes a Vari-Mu. One of these should cover at least one of your singers. I have them all(including a Distressor) so its easier to pick and choose." I'm moving in with you! Milk, one sugar, no calls before 11am and what time is dinner?