Concrete floor in tracking room?

[centurymantra]

I've got a decent room with acoustic treatments/diffusion, etc., though the floor is commercial carpet over concrete. I've debated the notion of taking up the concrete, polishing and painting/sealing it, and laying nice rugs about to break up the concrete surface. It's quite a committment to take up carpet and go this way...just wondering if anyone has some experience/insight/thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance!

[DSD_Mastering]

Build a floating floor on top of it....

[warhead]

I'm leaning towards using the acid stain on mine ala Wes Lachot. I believe if you Google or hit the John Sayers forums you will find some examples of acid stained concrete floors done by Wes, it is a beautiful look. The only thing that makes me double think it is the fact that standing on concrete can be a little rough, but also they can kind of start chilling you from the feet up. It's just kind of cold.

I like the look of the stains. I'm getting close to starting my build in my 30x30' garage and the floor is in excellent shape. Of course commercial grade paints are a good option, like the auto repair shops use.

War

[Kiwiburger]

Why not buy some thin plywood sheets, and put those down on the carpet if you need some reflective surfaces. If you find that you need these down most of the time, them sure - rip up the carpet.

[centurymantra]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Why not buy some thin plywood sheets, and put those down on the carpet if you need some reflective surfaces. If you find that you need these down most of the time, them sure - rip up the carpet.

I actually do this on occasion. I have a number of nice pine panels that I will throw down or alongside a musician, say - under an acoustic guitar or alongside a shaker/tambo, etc. - and I often put a piece of birch panelling under the snare side of the kit to get a bit of projection. This usually works out pretty well.

Ripping up the carpet is a bit extreme, though I've been thinking about the idea. A nicely finished concrete floor with cool rugs could actually look pretty nice as well. It would be cold though...

[Bounce]

I'm about to do this in my live room. Treated ceiling and walls and and convertible concrete floor (just add rugs to taste).

[Protools Guy]

I've got a concrete floor that has a vinyl covering (tthat looks like wood!) added with a few throw rugs. The walls and ceiling are treated. The room sounds great. If I had the money, I would've floated the floor, but I would've then lost 6-8 inches of room height, not to mention quite a bit of $$.

It really comes down to how much you want to spend. I can tell you that I'm really happy with the decision I made.

All the best...

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by centurymantra

I've got a decent room with acoustic treatments/diffusion, etc., though the floor is commercial carpet over concrete. I've debated the notion of taking up the concrete, polishing and painting/sealing it, and laying nice rugs about to break up the concrete surface. It's quite a committment to take up carpet and go this way...just wondering if anyone has some experience/insight/thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance!

Taking up the carpet really is going to help with the acoustics in your room, but don't forget at this point you really want to have a cloud over top of the mix spot.

Glenn

[Jules]

I have had great results in some studios with carpet over concrete.. all depends on the rest of the studios construction / accoustics IMHO.

In fact the studio owner at one place pulled up the carpet, put in some (fake wood) flooring to make a nice 'looking' drum area - and it messed it up totally..



You have to creep up on this sh!t in case you wreck everything that was good about it and make no additional improvements

[vernier]

Concrete can be great if the room is large such as warehouse or industrial unit ..especially for rock.

[lpkyer]

acid stained concrete look SO good!!

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by centurymantra

the floor is commercial carpet over concrete.

You asked my opinion in that other thread then said you started this one, so here I am.

The text below is from my Acoustics FAQ.

--Ethan

SIDEBAR: HARD FLOOR, SOFT CEILING

The following is from an exchange that took place in the rec.audio.pro newsgroup in May, 2003:

Bill Ruys asked: Why it is recommended to have bare (un-carpeted) floors in the studio? One web site I visited mentioned that a bare floor was a prerequisite for the room design with diffusors and absorbers on the ceiling, but didn't say why. I'm trying to understand the principal, rather than following blindly.

Paul Stamler: Carpet typically absorbs high frequencies and some midrange, but does nothing for bass and lower midrange. Using carpet as an acoustic treatment, in most rooms, results in a room that is dull and boomy. Most of the time you need a thicker absorber such as 4-inch or, better, 6-inch fiberglass, or acoustic tile, and you can't walk around on either of those. Hence the general recommendation that you avoid carpet on the floor and use broadband absorbers elsewhere.

Lee Liebner: the human ear is accustomed to determining spatial references from reflections off of side walls and floor, and a low ceiling would only confuse the brain with more early reflections it doesn't need. Everywhere you go, the floor is always the same distance away from you, so it's a reference that your brain can always relate to.

John Noll: Reasons for having wood floors: they look good, equipment can be rolled easily, spills can be cleaned up easily, provide a bright sound if needed, sound can be deadened with area rugs.

Ethan Winer: In a studio room, versus a control room, a reflective floor is a great way to get a nice sense of ambience when recording acoustic instruments. Notice I said reflective, not wood, since linoleum and other materials are less expensive than wood yet sound the same. When you record an acoustic guitar or clarinet or whatever, slight reflections off the floor give the illusion of "being right there in the room" on the recording. It's more difficult to use a ceiling for ambience - especially in a typical home studio with low ceilings - because the mikes are too close to the ceiling when miking from above. And that proximity creates comb filtering which can yield a hollow sound. So with a hard floor surface you can get ambience, and with full absorption on the ceiling you can put the mike above the instrument, very close to the ceiling, without getting comb filtering.

Dave Wallingford: I've always preferred wood floors for a few reasons: 1) It's easier to move stuff around, 2) You can always get area rugs if you need them, And the main reason: 3) Pianos sound like crap on carpet.

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by warhead

The only thing that makes me double think it is the fact that standing on concrete can be a little rough, but also they can kind of start chilling you from the feet up. It's just kind of cold.

Considered this? --




Hydronic Radiant Heating. *Very* nice.

One thing about studios with concrete floors -- no mic stand thumps.

Steve

[Nu-tra]

How about that hoverdeck thing by aurelux?

[warhead]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

Considered this? --




Hydronic Radiant Heating. *Very* nice.

One thing about studios with concrete floors -- no mic stand thumps.

Steve

My uncle installed that in his house on Cape Cod. Expensive! Works real well though, you could walk around barefoot in the dead of winter and feel nice and cozy. The heat isn't a real "obvious" heat either, it's done with warm water, for studios in cold climates that might be a great option. I am in South Carolina where it's WAY too hot for over half the year, and just right the rest with a few cold snaps in between. It's vents blowing cold air for me most days.

Thanks for sharing that though. I think it's a great option (and SILENT) that many folks haven't considered. Anyone needing more heat than cooling should investigate it.

Are you using it??

War

[warhead]

Originally Posted by lpkyer

acid stained concrete look SO good!!

Yes it does, that's what's got me hot for it also. - War

[AlexLakis]

How about laying down a truckload of hockey pucks and building the floor on top of that?

[warhead]

It's a sacrifice of headroom to build up the floor, if you don't have to. I have 9' to start with and am already going to lose some with the ceiling. It also appears to be cheaper to acid stain concrete vs build a floating floor.

War

[2leod]

I did the acid etch and stain for the studio, mostly so as not to lose height. I think it looks great, and small area rugs to stand on do the trick.

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by warhead

Are you using it??

It is a whole different level of comfortable heat, for sure War. I do not have it, my sister put it in when they remodeled a few years back. I'm always envious when I visit there. I just want to lay around on the floors all the time.... their cats really like it too.

Steve

[Benmrx]

To those of you who know, or have done it, how much "stain" did you use?

I've been toying with the idea of doing this in my tracking room. Right now I love the sound of my room, and don't want to **** it up. But the main area floor is pretty ugly. The room is kind of split up:

Main area
Drum area
ISO booth

The "main area" is the only place with concrete. The total room is approx. 500 sq. ft., but there's probably only 250 sq. ft. or so of concrete. How much would I need?

I did a quick google search and found this stuff.

http://concretedepot.net/catalog/cat...3e45f767ceba53

They sell it in gallons. Would something like 4 gallons be enough, or would it be overkill? I honestly have no idea.

Any help or advise on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

[2leod]

I got mine at Home Depot - I ended up getting more of the acid etch than I expeected 'cause the concrete was well seasoned and had some kind of sealer on it. One gallon of stain would have done me but I wasn't happy with the solid colour so I sponged a lighter stain on top. Then there's the sealer top coat - I'm going by memory now but I think they were all gallon containers. The room is 28' X 13'.

[Brad McGowan]

Hey Doug,

That looks like a pretty sweet drum corner. Is that real stone? Did you do that yourself too?

Brad

[t.dizzle]

Music Grinder in Hollywood (R.I.P.) had (non-stained) concrete floors and plaster walls. Some of the best drum sounds (hundreds - maybe more) ever recorded happened there. I got my best drum sound ever there, as well.

I hate the way drums sound on industrial carpet.

[2leod]

Thanks, Brad!

It is real stone, but no, laying them was the one thing in there I didn't do. And everything else I had a lot of help from some good buddies - one of whom builds speaker cabinets and used the stone for a backdrop on a couple of pages on his site.

[redddog]

Hey Doug,

That really does look amazing. How do the drums sound in that corner?

I have a seperate thread going specifically addressing the whole "drums in the corner of a room" issue.

I'd love to hear your take.

[sailcat]

I just finished acid staining a pretty big slab. We used wax for a finish, "burned in" with a floor buffer. I have to say that I'm not sure I'd do it again without total control of the pour and protection on the slab til it's finished. The actual finishing of the concrete has to be right - not totally smoothed or power troweled - and ANYTHING that gets spilled, dripped, tracked in etc. before you stain totally messes with the ability of the stain to work properly. Our slab sat while the rest of the house was built, and it was power troweled, so we had some issues to deal with. On the other hand, after lots of extra work, it still looks awesome!

The coverage is pretty good - seems like i remember 400 sq. ft. per gallon. We liked the Scofield product the best.

Re radiant floor, we did that too, and are finding it to be expensive to run. I'd want a very tight, well-insulated space and a cheaper fuel than propane, which we're using.

[jhamburg]

stained concrete: very cool look, Le Corbusier would be happy.

radiant heat:

We have it in the studio.

It was fairly cheap because we put it in ourselves. I didn't want to waste all the work we spent isolating by having a radiator or baseboard make noises and I didn't want to run the air handler to force hot air. Our rooms are fairly tight so it's very efficient. It works great and is easy on the sinuses.

Every room is on it's own loop with valve so we can direct heat where we need it.



Incidentally I've got 300' of 1/2" pex tubing left over if anyone wants any

cheers,

joel

[petys]

Do you recommend hiring a contractor to stain or is something that can be done yourself? I am thinking about doing my basement. It was power troweled about 2 years ago. The house in 2 years old. Is it expensive?. I heard the fumes were not good. I've got a baby and an infant on the way, But damn, it's looks totally awesome.

[GPl]

Originally Posted by 2leod

I did the acid etch and stain for the studio, mostly so as not to lose height. I think it looks great, and small area rugs to stand on do the trick.

That really does look sweet. Is that logs with chinking on the right side ? Floor looks good. I was wondering what to do with a concrete floor as far as looks. The 2 colors/sponge look seems like a plan. Got a place I'm hopefully going to buy with a Shop/Barn on the property. 25 x 40 something I think and the floors concrete but bare. Nice high ceilings though.

Nice looking room Doug.