Somebody please help me before I throw my gear out the window!!!

[RadioBox]

Okay, the other day I noticed a little noise coming through my ISA428. I looked around and figured maybe I needed a voltage regulator. So I get my Furman AR-15 today, and hook it up. Amazingly, that bit of noise was gone....yay....then I noticed my preamps are noisier than a drunk midget screwing a donkey with a megaphone glued to it's mouth. I cranked the gain on them one at a time and they are all sounding horrible. The Pacifica is just extremely noisy, but the ISA428 and ADL600 are somehow picking up a signal with nothing hooked up to them. The noises you hear are just me tapping on the table.

What is going on here??? Why is everything so noisy, and how in the hell is the 428 and adl600 picking up the sound of me tapping on the table?

The audio is just of the ADL600 at full gain. All three made a similar noise, but the 600 definitally picked up the most of the tapping.

Somebody please help me here. I'm really about to get all Biblical on my gear.

[Ravian]

are you realy sure there is nothing in the inputs?
strange

i thought it was the grounding of your pres. but this is real strange that they all do this.

the sound file is stereo in the L chan. i hear a metalic kind of clinging. in the R a percusion tone kind of sound in the distance.
like it was stereo mic'd

[RadioBox]

I am 100% sure there was nothing hooked up to the preamps. That clanking sound is me tapping the desk. The 428 and the ADL600 are doing this. The Pacifica is just being noisy. All of the plugs are going into the AR-15. I tried a different power strip, and had the same thing happen. I don't even know how this is possible.

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

the ISA428 and ADL600 are somehow picking up a signal with nothing hooked up to them.

Can't do that. You must have a terminated source resistance -- a mic or resistor plug -- connected to the preamp inputs to get a meaningful signal.

Steve

[RadioBox]

No, there is NOTHING connected to the inputs. I think I know what a input looks like with nothing connected to it.

[Naokiman]

make sure you tell us where your window is cuz I'm sure a lot of us will be jockeying for position!

ok ok... I know that's not helpful.

if your gear is in a rack, is everything isolated from the rack? I used to have hum (ground loop) problems until I used isolation tabs between each piece of equipment and the rack. It's probably a totally different issue though. wish I could help!

[RadioBox]

hmmm, I guess I'll try that. But if that doesn't work, I'm DEFINITALLY chucking some gear out the window and taking up a more relaxing pastime.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

No, there is NOTHING connected to the inputs. I think I know what a input looks like with nothing connected to it.

You're not listening.....What squeegybug said is that with unterminated inputs - ie: nothing hooked up - the mic pre's are going to pick up a bunch of crap. Sounds like you have multiple problems. First, hook up a mike - even if it's in a quiet room, and listen again. The pre's will be quieter, but may still have noise. THEN, address your wiring. Sounds like you have grounding/wiring issues. Do a search for star ground, audio wiring, balanced power, etc. Those two things will fix your problem.

Either that or toss it out the window. I'll have no issues with it in my studio. They'll work just fine.

PS - Radiobox, this is not just intended for you, it's to everyone who knows nothing about wiring and goes out and buys thousands of $$ of expensive gear and wonders why it makes noise. Geez, guys, do some homework first on the abovementioned topics and save yourself a lot of grief and money. Having the basics covered will make even cheap gear sound better than expensive gear hooked up wrong.

[NoEgo]

That sound I heard sounds close to when I had a tube go microphonic.

When something IS hooked up to th ADL is there an extreme mid sounding product? Not the old smoothie it should be?

Just an idea. That's what my tube sounded like before I replaced it.
Lou

[Sqye]

..

i think what you're hearing is the sound of the bush administration

preparing to invade manchuria....


...or neptune (whatever's left - no pun intended).

..

[theremin]

Too tough to track it down if you aren't sure you have it hooked up properly to begin with.
Go thru your wiring first and make sure all is well there, then start to troubleshoot if it is an actual piece of hardware.

here is a basic guide on wiring
Rane Interconnect Doc

here is a similar guide written up by benchmark
Star Grounding etc.

S!
Jason

[midnightsun]

I've got a hunch but answer the following questions first--

1. Are you using a patch bay?

2. Are you multing anything?

3. What is your setup?

4. Are there any pieces of equipment in your setup than you don't have powered on?

[RadioBox]

Well, after spending the day doing other things, I came home and hooked everything back up and for some reason it all worked fine. I'm not complaining, but it's still very strange that it would all just "fix" itself. Maybe while troubleshooting I overlooked something very obvious out of frustration. Who knows?

DrBill: I agree with what you're saying, but I really don't need a lecture. I'm not the person that just goes out and buys thousands of dollars in gear without knowing anything about it. I've been buying pieces for a few years, and I've read up on cables and ground loops and all that other fun and exciting stuff. I know the basics, and have never had a problem before. I checked all the basic stuff before posting here. This was my last resort before calling someone, because I was just truly stumped. It happens sometimes. That's why electricians can make good money, even if people know the basics. I don't balme you for assuming, because 99% of "WTF" posts are by some guy that just spent his tax return on a digi002 and wants to know why his condenser mic that came free with the 002 won't work when he plugs it into the preamp. So while I understand why you felt the need to lecture, and I probably would have to, but it hurt my feelings, and emotional scars are very real.

Thanks to everyone with advice, and I'm just glad to have a new song recorded, a studio that smells like feet and beer, and a stomach that hurts really bad.

[Sqye]

..

any updates on manchuria??

..

[raal]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

Well, after spending the day doing other things, I came home and hooked everything back up and for some reason it all worked fine. I'm not complaining, but it's still very strange that it would all just "fix" itself. Maybe while troubleshooting I overlooked something very obvious out of frustration. Who knows?

there's a ghost in the studio type thread here. maybe you should go there.

seriously, the same has happened to me and i attribute it to very dirty power where i am (mexico). though it doesn't sound like it has a beat like in yours... pretty scary.

mine usually sounds like a good old fashioned 60Hz hum but sometimes way higher. sometimes when it rains heavily this happens, sometimes not. have done the ground loop hunt, isolating different grounds, racks, etc. dance for years. the studio is in another building in the back of the house and one phase is dedicated exclusively to the audio there. air conditioning and lighting are on a different phase. AC is regulated and filtered on the way in, and then goes to no breaks. and though the problem is minimal, it's still there (rarely, but it bugs when it comes back). just so you know you're not alone.

and it fixes itself. i should have my ghost people talk to your ghost people.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

but I really don't need a lecture. I'm not the person that just goes out and buys thousands of dollars in gear without knowing anything about it.

Sorry for the lecture, but I still tend to disagree. If you don't even know about unterminated mic inputs turned wide open creating "noise" and why tubes might be microphonic, some background may be in order. And you didn't give us enough background to know if you just spent your tax return on an 002 and mic pre's. Maybe there was too much beer before the session started??

[Sqye]

..

lol

[DeathMonkey]

Originally Posted by raal

there's a ghost in the studio type thread here. maybe you should go there.

and yes, it fixes itself. i should have my ghost people talk to your ghost people.

I swear, every now and then I unknowingly cross dimensional barriers, through the space-time continuum, and pass into a parallel Universe where everything is EXACTLY THE SAME, except that my stuff doesn't work.

[RadioBox]

Originally Posted by drBill

Sorry for the lecture, but I still tend to disagree. If you don't even know about unterminated mic inputs turned wide open creating "noise" and why tubes might be microphonic, some background may be in order. And you didn't give us enough background to know if you just spent your tax return on an 002 and mic pre's. Maybe there was too much beer before the session started??

I got that noise with mics hooked up, xlr cables hooked up with no mic, keyboards hooked up, and finally with absolutely nothing hooked up. See, the people like yourself that just simply say the problem isn't possible and give a lecture about your infinite knowledge of all things electrical can tend to come off like arrogant pricks and will find themselves rightfully deserving of one of these" fuuck

You must be a sad, sad man.
dfegad you

[drBill]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

I got that noise with mics hooked up, xlr cables hooked up with no mic, keyboards hooked up, and finally with absolutely nothing hooked up. See, the people like yourself that just simply say the problem isn't possible and give a lecture about your infinite knowledge of all things electrical can tend to come off like arrogant pricks and will find themselves rightfully deserving of one of these" fuuck

You must be a sad, sad man.
dfegad you

dude, why didn't you tell us that to begin with. You would have saved a bunch of us a lot of tiime in trying to help you out. You've got a people skills problem I think.....

[raal]

Originally Posted by DeathMonkey

I swear, every now and then I unknowingly cross dimensional barriers, through the space-time continuum, and pass into a parallel Universe where everything is EXACTLY THE SAME, except that my stuff doesn't work.

sucks when that happens. but when my stuff works great in both Universes, that's when i really lose it.

[RadioBox]

Originally Posted by drBill

dude, why didn't you tell us that to begin with. You would have saved a bunch of us a lot of tiime in trying to help you out. You've got a people skills problem I think.....

con·de·scend·ing [ kòndə sénding ]


adjective

Definition:

snobby: behaving toward other people in a way that shows you consider yourself socially or intellectually superior to them




con·de·scend·ing·ly adverb

people skills?

Let's just say I'm an antisocial moron who doesn't know about microphonic tubes and you're a arrogant prick, deal? This is fun, but it's kind of a waste of forum space, and it's only a matter of time before the internet police come and point out how annoying useless threads are. But if we ever meet, there's going to be a breakdancing battle!

[midnightsun]

Originally Posted by midnightsun

I've got a hunch but answer the following questions first--

1. Are you using a patch bay?

2. Are you multing anything?

3. What is your setup?

4. Are there any pieces of equipment in your setup than you don't have powered on?

Well, RadioBox..... something caused the problem. Even though it may be intermittent and frustrating it ain't over. If you take a moment out of your frustration (we've all be there) and expand on some of the above questions, perhaps you will get some specific trouble shooting tips. Good luck

[drBill]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

people skills?

Seems like you only want to be told that there's ghosts in your studio and that you have a lot of knowledge, but something supernatural or beyond the scope of normal engineering knowledge is happening.

Squeegybug laid it out pure and simple for you and you responded without listening to what he was saying and with total ignorance. How are we supposed supposed to interpret that? Are we to assume that you've been doing this for 15 years and are an expert? Or otherwise?

You can't have unterminated mic inputs cranked up all the way. They will pick up all kinds of crap from the outside world. They will be anything but quiet. Something that most of us know. Obviously you didn't.

Microphonic tubes? Again, with that much gain cranked up, most of us know or have experienced the same with guitars and amps. Obviously you didn't.

You come off like an arrogant young SOB that is a know it all. Why bother to post unless it's to hear your own noise.

Some of us have been doing this for decades. I gave you two things to check to help you out with your problem. Did you do them? You certainly didn't report back as to the results. Have you checked out Midnightsun's suggestions. He's right you know....something did cause the problem.

Next time you post, if you want to be thought of as an intelligent person, try giving all the details. Giving half the details, whining and then insulting people when they try to help you out won't get you far around here.

Cheers,

bp


PS - you've got it all over me on the breakdancing battle though......

[raal]

i'm not Radiobox but maybe you can help me:

Originally Posted by midnightsun

1. Are you using a patch bay?

yes.

2. Are you multing anything?

sometimes.

3. What is your setup?

varies alot, but i have PT Accel, G5, 2 X192s and 1 X 16X, folcrom and much outboard. sometimes do ITB, sometimes hybrid.

4. Are there any pieces of equipment in your setup than you don't have powered on?

do you mean while connected to each other? many times there's plenty of gear off when it's not in use.

thanks.

[ImJohn]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

Okay, the other day I noticed a little noise coming through my ISA428. I looked around and figured maybe I needed a voltage regulator. So I get my Furman AR-15 today, and hook it up. Amazingly, that bit of noise was gone....yay....then I noticed my preamps are noisier than a drunk midget screwing a donkey with a megaphone glued to it's mouth.

So, maybe I missed it but did you try taking the Furman AR-15 out of the picture again? If so, are your preamps quiet again and does the noise that the ISA428 was making return?

Best of luck!

[RadioBox]

I appreciate the advice from those that were really trying to be helpful without the need to be condescending. I won't bore you with listing everything, because I really think I was just overlooking something obvious before.

Actually, this whole mess is my fault, dr bill. I've been on gearslutz long enough to know that if you ask a technical question you'll get your ass flamed. It's just so much funnier when someone else is getting flamed.

Yeah, I totally misinterpretted that statement about the terminated input. But the noise was still there when the inputs were terminated. So even though I'm a moron, that still wasn't the problem. Also, about the tubes being microphonic, that's new to me too. However, the 428 is solid state, and it was doing the same thing. I'm sure that's something else I don't know about yet either, but I'd like to know.

I never said I was an expert with 15 years of experience. I said I knew basics. I haven't had a problem yet, so I don't know a lot. Problems are the best educators with this stuff.

[RadioBox]

Originally Posted by ImJohn

So, maybe I missed it but did you try taking the Furman AR-15 out of the picture again? If so, are your preamps quiet again and does the noise that the ISA428 was making return?

Best of luck!

I actually tried that, with the same problem. I disconnected everything and rewired it, and everything was fine. I was probably just missing something that was staring me in the face. Now everything's working in perfect harmony.

[Sqye]

..

hey radiobox, even though drbill's words might have seemed a bit harsh,

he's right.

there's almost ALWAYS more to learn - especially HERE,
and judging from your posts thus far -
you are coming across like somewhat of a newbie.

i hardly think you would've caught michael wagener posting questions
on the same pretty basic connection issues.

i mean, hell, MW can take his gear apart and mod it himself - since,
on TOP of the fact that his name is on over 50 million records, he's also an EE.

these are some of the minds you have the good fortune
of having direct access to here at GS, thanks to Jules et al.

these folks have studied long and hard, and worked in the filed for many years,
as engineers, and product designers, etc.

however, drbill and many others here have offered you some good perspective and help,
whether or not you choose to see it that way or accept their help, graciously.

forget the ego - there's always MORE to learn,
especially, it sounds like, at your level.

there's absolutely no shame in LEARNING from KNOWLEDGABLE folks
who are willing to help you out.

i assume that's why you came here in the FIRST PLACE -
not to tell us how much YOU KNOW, but to find a SOLUTION
to your PROBLEM.

and, hey, i'm no genius, i have LOTS to learn from these guys, as well.
this is only one of the main reasons to be here. (obviously, GS is ALSO a BLAST).

as soon as you reach geoff tanner, michael wagener, jim williams, etc. status,
then you can serve up your posts with a bit more f*ck you.

anyhoo, good luck, and remember, most of us ARE here to help,
even if you do sometimes get a little 'holier than thou' mixed in with the advice.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by RadioBox

I've been on gearslutz long enough to know that if you ask a technical question you'll get your ass flamed.

Maybe, but I've found people here to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful if you give all the details up front and try out the suggestions given.

Originally Posted by RadioBox

Problems are the best educators with this stuff.

Ain't that the truth. Hope you figure it out.