9th February 2007
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#1 | | Moderator
Joined: Dec 2003 Location: London, innit
Posts: 5,255
Thread Starter  | flatter, smoother dynamic/condenser for overdriven elec gtr?
(Perhaps this is more a "low end" question actually)
Any favourites?
I notice a lot of E609 lovers here. Am I right in saying they don't make them anymore? Is the 906 comparabe?
Has anyone tried the newer/bigger/better/shinier SP B1 on gtr amps?
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9th February 2007
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#2 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,424
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Flatter/smoother -- how about a ribbon?
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9th February 2007
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#3 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal
Posts: 13,885
| Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett  Flatter/smoother -- how about a ribbon? | Ribbon - smoother, but I wouldn't call it flatter. Many have a huge low end bump and start dropping off around 5-6k.
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9th February 2007
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#4 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,424
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Yeah well . .. Ribbons take great eq!
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10th February 2007
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#5 | | Moderator
Joined: Dec 2003 Location: London, innit
Posts: 5,255
Thread Starter |
LOL --- touche!
In all seriousness, I don't have the budget for Ribbons, hi gain preamps OR outboard EQs.
So in reality I'm looking for something to complement the 57 tone.
ANycomments on the 609 vs the 906?
PS just found a thread witn samples of various 409, 609 and 906 examples: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ht=609+409+906
409 sounds great as does the 906 in both modes
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10th February 2007
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#6 | | Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004 Location: london
Posts: 2,951
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201?
421?
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12th April 2012
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#7 | | Gear interested
Joined: Aug 2008 Location: Engerland
Posts: 14
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12th April 2012
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,134
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You need to try and Electro Voice RE 20 on the amp. Smooth, big sounding. A condenser will probably give you too much end but the Beatles got great guitar tone with Neumann U67 mics on their amps (but that is a somewhat dark sounding condenser). A Sennheiser 421 or 441 would also be good choices.
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12th April 2012
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#9 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 3,980
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I have an r92, a 421, a pr30 and an sm7. Always an r92, sometimes 421 or sm7.
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12th April 2012
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#10 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal
Posts: 13,885
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My new flatter / smoother dynamic for EGtr cabs :
Shure 545 Unidyne III's.
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12th April 2012
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#11 | | Gear nut
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 128
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I've been using a Sennheiser MD407 on distored guitars lately.
It sounds big and smooth with a old school vibe..
I also love the MD441, Beyer M201 and Cascade fathead.
Depends on the amp/speaker though.. sometimes a classic SM57 is better.
I have a PR30, but I find it too raspy sounding for distorted guitars.
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14th April 2012
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2006 Location: 92W 39N
Posts: 1,221
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I can always get a useable sound from an SM80 omni, which is as flat as any across the audio band, but the M130 ribbon usually sounds better. It's flat from 100 to 10k and rolls off some above and below. A couple of feet from the speaker, it seems to really get the essence of the tone I set up on the amp.
Cheers,
Otto
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14th April 2012
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#13 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,310
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Saw Umphrey's McGee using what looked to be SR25's on both guitar cabs.
There's flat'n smooth' for ya.
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14th April 2012
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#14 | | Gear interested
Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Norway
Posts: 15
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The e906 is great and affordable, imo. My favourite for live sound and good for studio applications too. Sometimes mixing it with an SDC works really well.
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14th April 2012
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#15 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 744
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I prefer the i5 over the 906, 609, 57, 421 and so on after a bunch of testing. Usually use with an API pre on guitar. Could just be me though.
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14th April 2012
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#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,320
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Maybe take a look at an ADK S7. Also, the new ADK Thor, with a range of frequency responses and pickup patterns, could be very versatile. Haven't heard one yet though.
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14th April 2012
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#17 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,310
| Quote:
Originally Posted by jmikeperkins You need to try and Electro Voice RE 20 on the amp. Smooth, big sounding. ... | Making a mental note here...
I've never tried it on guitar cab. Likely my preconceived notions kicking in from familiarity with its top on vocals. (..that's to say the rather high spot' of it's lift up there  | |
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19th August 2012
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#18 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 161
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RE20s are a must have. I love the Sony C38b on overdriven guitars - it's the only mic we used on guitars for a song last week. I got mine pretty cheap on ebay from a guy in Japan. It's smooth, flat and and sounds great on drums as well.
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19th August 2012
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#19 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2010 Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,077
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What is the reasoning behind "flatter, smoother"? I note that the objective is distorted guitars. Is there too much buzz or ratty sound? Short of a ribbon, a different dynamic like a 609 (which I love) or 906, RE-20 isn't going to get rid of a jar of bees tone.
Using the 57 you have now, experiment with placement. Almost never does the center of the cone work. Usually more towards the edge than the center. Try angling the mic relative to the speaker. Or moving it further away.
Once you've exhausted the placement options, of the placements you like the best-what is missing? From that point you can search out a microphone that is different from the 57 in a way that gets you more of what you want.
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19th August 2012
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#20 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Nashville
Posts: 4,308
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Sm7 does fine. Beats the piss out of a 57. It's like "what a 57 should sound like".
Over the years, I've done distorted tones with the 57/121 combo, 121 alone, 421, and sm7...all successfully. The first combo is the ultimate non committal way to go--between the two, in combo with EQ, you can achieve pretty well any tome come mix time. Short of that, the 121 and sm7 are tied. The 421 is super right when it's right, which is rare.
An API 512c with any mic of name will pretty handily sound better on rock guitar than any super nice ribbon through something else. This is the one example when I've found the preamp actually DOES matter more than the mic. With acoustic instruments and voices...mic all the way...but, for rocking, loud amps? If an sm7+512c doesn't do it, there's something wrong with the source.
That said...with dynamics, placement is king. Which is why I no longer bother with the 57 and 421--both far too tweaky about placement compared with the sm7 and 121...which react to placement more like "which flavor of good do you want today" rather than "find the sweet spot, or else I will sound like fizzy ass".
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19th August 2012
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#21 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2002 Location: Elmont NY |
Beyer M88, it's a wonderful mic.
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20th August 2012
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#22 | | Gear addict
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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I like the beyer 201 or cad e100s for flatter guitar mics.
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20th August 2012
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#23 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,645
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I love the 906 on guitars. Much better than the 609. For flatter I find that it's all about mic position
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20th August 2012
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#24 | | Gear addict
Joined: Jun 2006 Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 372
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Blast9 LOL --- touche!
In all seriousness, I don't have the budget for Ribbons, hi gain preamps OR outboard EQs.
So in reality I'm looking for something to complement the 57 tone. | To be fair, you dont need hi gain pre's or outboard EQ's when recording guitar amps. The source should be plenty loud.
I use a modded Apex 205 (w/ lundahl) - coupled with an AT4050 (omni) a few feet back, I get a very nice guitar tone. I also use SM7b and PR30s with great success. Especially if I'm layering guitars. Just sounds glorious.
Apex 205 costs about $100, the lundahl tranny costs 75 if im not mistake, and that thing is just incredible.
The cascade fatheads (with stock tranny) are very affordable as well, and probably more suited for a guitar cab.
Whenever I hear "compliment a 57" i immediately think of 121/Fathead for guitar cabs.
That's what works for me - YMMV
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21st August 2012
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#25 | | Gear nut
Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 125
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I really like the e906 for gainier tones. I find that i typically can get the desired tone way more quickly than with a 57. I'm sure there are other mics I would be happy with, but the e906 -> API combo seems to always do the trick for me for gainier tones.
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21st August 2012
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#26 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,648
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldsnow I prefer the i5 over the 906, 609, 57, 421 and so on after a bunch of testing. Usually use with an API pre on guitar. Could just be me though. | I find the i5 is too sensitive to proximity effect when getting too close.
I have gone through phases and now have a few go to mics.
I have had great success with al of the below and still use them all.
Shure SM57
Sennheiser MD409
Sennheiser E906
AKG C414EB in fig8 with the rear baffled off. (yes this one works well, but I have tried some other C414's like this and they sucked. So it may just be this particular mic)
My favourite at the moment is my Beyer Dynamic M160
Happy hunting. 
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21st August 2012
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#27 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2012 Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 66
| Both dynamic and condenser
I was just suggested an AT 2500... the "kick drum mic" with a dynamic and condenser phase aligned in the same body. Used it on guitar cabinet the last session I did and guess what? It is a pretty smokin' mic for that application...
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25th August 2012
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#28 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,648
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicarii I was just suggested an AT 2500... the "kick drum mic" with a dynamic and condenser phase aligned in the same body. Used it on guitar cabinet the last session I did and guess what? It is a pretty smokin' mic for that application... | When on tour I am currently using the Audio Technica ATM250DE as my main guitar mic and second guitarist with a Sennheiser E906. The 250DE makes a kick arse stereo guitar cab mic and, as you say, perfect time alignment.
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25th August 2012
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#29 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,814
| Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann Sm7 does fine. Beats the piss out of a 57. It's like "what a 57 should sound like". | This is what I've been doing lately. Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann That said...with dynamics, placement is king. | Find the spot.
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25th August 2012
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#30 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2005 Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 3,201
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Blast9 (...)I don't have the budget for Ribbons, hi gain preamps OR outboard EQs.(...) | There ARE pretty decent low-budget ribbons on the market.
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