Login / Register
 
Having problems getting a good guitar sound, could it be the cab?
New Reply
Subscribe
Torwald
Thread Starter
#1
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #1
Gear nut
 
Torwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 103

Thread Starter
Torwald is offline
Having problems getting a good guitar sound, could it be the cab?

Well good day fellow musicians!

I'm having serious problems getting a good distorted tone on tape (read: hard drive). Clean tones always work fine, and certain distorted ones too, but I really can't seem to get a good modern rock tone (think Millencolin meets Jimmy Eat World). I'm using a 421 through a TL Audio 5050 and an sm57 through one of the pres on my 002 (). I know the 002 have really bad preamps, but I'm pretty sure this isn't my weakest link when it comes to guitar tone, right now.

My guitar rig setup is a Tele through a Marshall 6100 and a home made cab (2x12" G12T-75), and really, I think the latter is my problem. The sound of those are kinda harsh and unfriendly, and I suspect that these are causing that nasty harsh high end I'm getting. I'm really not getting the smooth (yet somewhat crunchy) low end I'm looking for, and I'm ceratinly not getting the high end crisp I want!

I tried a JMP hand wired through the 2x12" hand wired series with a tubescreamer and a tele, and I got a really good and smooth tone. Those things have Greenbacks in them, could this be what I'm looking for?

I'd appreciate any suggestions! Just please don't tell me to get better preamps, cause I'll tell you this: My list of recording stuff to get is a lot longer than my list of recording stuff not to get.*

Cheers!

*EDIT: Unless, ofcourse, this is the solution to my problem!
__________________
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
#2
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
numrologst's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,955

numrologst is offline
I hate to say it but your preamps are probably the weak link in the chain... The digi002 preamps are pretty bad...And bad preamps can cause some serious ear shrapnel on guitars.

The 57 and 421 aren't gonna be your problems... Although there are much much sweeter mics for cabs (r84, 121, 4038)... Ribbon mics really sound fantastic on cabs, especially the aforementioned.

Mic placement, room, amp placement in the room... are all huge factors too.


How does your amp sound when you are in the room playing it? If it sounds bad just listening in the room, then your cab can be giving you the mud, as well as bad tubes, blown resitors, and a whole variety of other things.

But I would definately think long and hard about your room and preamps
#3
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 
gainreduction's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,696

gainreduction is offline
You might wanna try a 335 or a LesPaul instead of the tele aswell.
#4
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #4
Gear nut
 
Jesse Miller's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Islamorada FL Keys
Posts: 97

Jesse Miller is offline
Not only room and mic placement can affect the sound you hear in the room. Is the Cab on the floor? Try raising the cabinate on a flight case or concrete blocks. Make sure the floor surface directly below the mic is Soft and not hard (wood floor?) Comb filtering from early reflections is often a problem ,where it may sound good to you in the room but what the mic hears is completly different.
#5
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Protools Guy's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 1,287

Protools Guy is offline
i would suggest getting it to sound right coming out of the amp/cab first. if it sounds great there, it should be easy to reproduce. if it sounds like ass, it's hard to polish.
__________________
I only need one more piece of gear... Bill Leverty
http://www.leverty.com
http://www.waves.com/staging/content.aspx?id=12038
#6
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #6
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: A stoned throw from ground zero
Posts: 12,341

FFTT is offline
First I'd try several different amplifiers. While an amp built for live performances
may sound good in a live setting, generally a 5, 15 or 30 watt class A amp will
give you better results for recording.

You can try Greenbacks or a cabinet with a pair of Vintage 30's.

As mentioned above, try different cabinet placements and mic placements.

The room can also make quite a difference.

Sometimes a hard room can work, such as a concrete stairway or tile bathroom.

I've also recorded with the amp and mic wrapped in a makeshift box of sofa cushions.

Your Tele should should fine, but also as mentioned above, something with humbuckers may get you the sound you're looking for.

Also try recording with less drive than you would normally use live and see how that sounds.

Then there's re-amping a relatively clean signal back through your amplifier.

You can also try drop tuning your guitars or using a capo or multi-tracking the same part in layers.

Keep records of your set-ups, so you can go back to the ones that work best.
__________________
Don't look at me in that tone of voice

Put music in your heart
and heart in your music
#7
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #7
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 221

tradarama is offline
To your question of cab and speakers...

All things considered...if you're talking JUST about the tone of the speakers...assuming you had God's gift of everything else perfect in the universe (including the best tone fingers in the world because we all know that's the only place tone comes from)....then...

The V30s or G12H Celestions will give you a smoother tone than the speakers you're using. You could end up having to turn other knobs to avoid mush (not that those speakers are mushy but more mids smoother highs).

One trick that might work is to take a 4-12 and only put speakers in the top 2 slots (leave bottom empty). Some people say this gets them very warm tone. Don't run out and drop a ton of dough but 4-12s can be cheap to buy locally because nobody wants to ship them! Worth a shot.

But the speakers...V30s (yes many people HATE them) are pretty good to try.

Also I'm told that wiring to 16 ohms gets the fullest tone from your amps output tranny.

A couple of other things that are pretty inexpensive...buy a good quality cable from the amp to cab (monster will do fine ...the thicker one). Also try a better instrument cable.

I do tend to agree that a single coil will give you a very harsh distorted tone (although some pull it off). A humbucking guitar may be smoother (I'd bet my lungs it would be). If you do move that direction get a mahogany guitar (LPish).

Hope this helps. Jim
#8
3rd February 2007
Old 3rd February 2007
  #8
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 221

tradarama is offline
This guy knows speakers....email him or read his site

He and I have spent hours chasing old Celestion speakers. He may be one of the best accessible experts on speaker differences. His site is informative and I believe the discussions of the different tones is accurate.

Email him and ask if he still has clips of the different types of speakers and cones...it's pretty telling. You can tell him I recommended him (Jim Pallotta) although he's extremely nice without an intro.

http://www.southbayampworks.com/faqs.html
Torwald
Thread Starter
#9
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #9
Gear nut
 
Torwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 103

Thread Starter
Torwald is offline
Thanks you guys, really appreciate all the input I'm getting! I'm gonna try to respond to all of you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
I hate to say it but your preamps are probably the weak link in the chain... The digi002 preamps are pretty bad...And bad preamps can cause some serious ear shrapnel on guitars.

The 57 and 421 aren't gonna be your problems... Although there are much much sweeter mics for cabs (r84, 121, 4038)... Ribbon mics really sound fantastic on cabs, especially the aforementioned.

Mic placement, room, amp placement in the room... are all huge factors too.


How does your amp sound when you are in the room playing it? If it sounds bad just listening in the room, then your cab can be giving you the mud, as well as bad tubes, blown resitors, and a whole variety of other things.

But I would definately think long and hard about your room and preamps
I don't have much experience with ribbons, but I tried the 121, but on a completely different setup (not my own), and it sounded great. However, as far as I'm concerned, considering how great tones I've hear recorded with either a 57 or a 421 (or a combination of both for that matter) I should be able to get a really good guitar sound with the mics I currently have at my disposal.

What you say about the 002 pres is of course absolutely true, they are not smooth in any way, but the kind of harshness I'm talking about isn't really the "subtle" sharpness you'd get from bad pres, but rather a sharpness that seems to be coming into the mics from the very beginning. If I was to get a pair of preamps, what would you suggest for guitar? I have serious GAS for the 3124, but right now it's a bit outside of my budget. Oh, and I tried running the 421 and 57 (separately) through the tl audio, and it still doesn't sound very good. The 5050 isn't exactly high end, but it should at least sound better than the 002.

And yeah, the guitar sound in the room is pretty decent, I think! I've got fresh valves in the 6100 and the tele (american) is great as well. But then, I'm not really playing with my ear 2" from the speaker cone!

The room sound pretty ok too, I don't think that's a major problem since I'm close micig here, and both mics are cardioids. The room I have the guitar cab in is really small and dead, so I'm not picking up much room at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction View Post
You might wanna try a 335 or a LesPaul instead of the tele aswell.
Thanks for the input! However, I have already tried a les paul, but it didn't really fit the sound I was looking for. I liked the sound of an explorer, but I enjoy playing the tele more, and that's more important to me to get a good sound, I think. The 335 is great, but I don't currently have one, I'm afraid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Miller View Post
Not only room and mic placement can affect the sound you hear in the room. Is the Cab on the floor? Try raising the cabinate on a flight case or concrete blocks. Make sure the floor surface directly below the mic is Soft and not hard (wood floor?) Comb filtering from early reflections is often a problem ,where it may sound good to you in the room but what the mic hears is completly different.
You raise a pretty good point here, I think. This is the deal:
My cab is standing on wheels, though as you say, I should probably get a flight case since it would absorb some vibrations and not just transfer them into the floor. I really improved the sound of my guitar a while back by putting a blanket just below the mics on the (wooden) floor.

However, I don't think it's comb filtering I'm experiencing right now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protools Guy View Post
i would suggest getting it to sound right coming out of the amp/cab first. if it sounds great there, it should be easy to reproduce. if it sounds like ass, it's hard to polish.
Yes, this is exactly what I am asking. Could it be that the sound of the cab is just terrible? It's kinda hard to tell when you're listening to the room sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
First I'd try several different amplifiers. While an amp built for live performances
may sound good in a live setting, generally a 5, 15 or 30 watt class A amp will
give you better results for recording.

You can try Greenbacks or a cabinet with a pair of Vintage 30's.

As mentioned above, try different cabinet placements and mic placements.

The room can also make quite a difference.

Sometimes a hard room can work, such as a concrete stairway or tile bathroom.

I've also recorded with the amp and mic wrapped in a makeshift box of sofa cushions.

Your Tele should should fine, but also as mentioned above, something with humbuckers may get you the sound you're looking for.

Also try recording with less drive than you would normally use live and see how that sounds.

Then there's re-amping a relatively clean signal back through your amplifier.

You can also try drop tuning your guitars or using a capo or multi-tracking the same part in layers.

Keep records of your set-ups, so you can go back to the ones that work best.
Hi!
The 6100 is switchable between 100, 50 and 25 watts, and I always run it at 25w when I record. And I always use less gain than I would in a live situation. Actually, the sound is kinda low gain from the begining. The rest I think I have already answered?

Your last point is an important one. This is how I always do with heavier guitars (tuning lower to get looser strings) and dubbing the guitars. However, I don't feel like dubbing when I don't have a guitar sound I'm satisfied with yet. Thanks for tip though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tradarama View Post
All things considered...if you're talking JUST about the tone of the speakers...assuming you had God's gift of everything else perfect in the universe (including the best tone fingers in the world because we all know that's the only place tone comes from)....then...

The V30s or G12H Celestions will give you a smoother tone than the speakers you're using. You could end up having to turn other knobs to avoid mush (not that those speakers are mushy but more mids smoother highs).

One trick that might work is to take a 4-12 and only put speakers in the top 2 slots (leave bottom empty). Some people say this gets them very warm tone. Don't run out and drop a ton of dough but 4-12s can be cheap to buy locally because nobody wants to ship them! Worth a shot.

But the speakers...V30s (yes many people HATE them) are pretty good to try.

Also I'm told that wiring to 16 ohms gets the fullest tone from your amps output tranny.

A couple of other things that are pretty inexpensive...buy a good quality cable from the amp to cab (monster will do fine ...the thicker one). Also try a better instrument cable.

I do tend to agree that a single coil will give you a very harsh distorted tone (although some pull it off). A humbucking guitar may be smoother (I'd bet my lungs it would be). If you do move that direction get a mahogany guitar (LPish).

Hope this helps. Jim
Some interesting thoughts here, Jim, thanks! Some of them feel a bit "audiophile-ish" (no offence!), like getting a high quality cable between the amp and cab. I don't really see how that could make a difference? I'm sorry if I'm just being naïve! I'm really curious about some other things though...

First of all, thanks for the tip about the V30s, I'm going to try them out (allthough people hate them... That ought to make 'em cheaper, right? )

Why would leaving the bottom slots in a 4x12 empty make the tone warmer? I see that the resonances could be doing it, but what else? It sounds like it could work, but I'm always really curious about the theory part.

The 16 ohm thing is really interesting as well! It sounds plausible that the amp could be doing a better job with a higher impendance (running at 8 ohms currently), but I guess it would only be a very subtle change? I think what I'm looking for right now is a more "radical" change...

And oh, I already got very good quality instrument cable (I belive this is far more important than having a good cable between the amp and the cab).

And about single coils: I have a Seymour Duncan JB Junior in bridge position, sorry, I should have mentioned that earlier!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tradarama View Post
He and I have spent hours chasing old Celestion speakers. He may be one of the best accessible experts on speaker differences. His site is informative and I believe the discussions of the different tones is accurate.

Email him and ask if he still has clips of the different types of speakers and cones...it's pretty telling. You can tell him I recommended him (Jim Pallotta) although he's extremely nice without an intro.

http://www.southbayampworks.com/faqs.html
Thansk! That was a lot of great info! I'm gonna have a closer look later on, when I have more time. If it is possible to get some sound clips, that would also be awfully interesting! Thanks a lot for the kind tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by woomanmoomin View Post
I think Fane speakers as used in some Hiwatt cabs ought to be less scooped than the ones you're using as well. Might hem in the harsh highs a bit, though I don't know whether they'd suit your style overall. Might be worth a look.
Oh yes! They have some blue ones I tried but forgot the name of which sounded really delicate! However, these were pretty expensive I think? Hm, isn't those cones the ones used in some of the newer AC30's?


Again, thanks everyone! Please continue posting in the thread! If it's not too much trouble, please see if I managed to formulate some new questions in this post. I'm not sure though?
#10
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #10
x86 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Winterthur, Switzerland
Posts: 8,654
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to George Necola
George Necola is offline
Quote:
Marshall 6100 and a home made cab (2x12" G12T-75
the marshall/homemade cab might be the problem

we only use LABOGA-cabs since a while.. big improvement. also we kicked out all marshalls, except the annyversary blue edition and the JMP.

V30 is the answer to good rocksounds.. 4x12" is not a must, but very nice.

Audix i5 was a big step up from the 57. 421 dont work all the time. small condensors work very good.

cheers George
__________________
Quote:
"recording engineers don't die, they are dragged into the grave by the shear weight of their balls."
Malcolm Chisholm
---------------------------------------------
www.georgenecola.com produce & mix itm/gear & fun

blog.georgenecola.com reviews & gear
Torwald
Thread Starter
#11
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #11
Gear nut
 
Torwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 103

Thread Starter
Torwald is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
the marshall/homemade cab might be the problem

we only use LABOGA-cabs since a while.. big improvement. also we kicked out all marshalls, except the annyversary blue edition and the JMP.

V30 is the answer to good rocksounds.. 4x12" is not a must, but very nice.

Audix i5 was a big step up from the 57. 421 dont work all the time. small condensors work very good.

cheers George
LABOGA, I haven't heard many people using these! I think I'm gonna get an i5 actually, just to try it. I hear it's kinda nice on snare too, so I guess I could always use it for something! I like the 421 though, I think it works almost all the times, just moving it around a bit... I don't have very good experiences from using small condensors on cabs either :(

And also: The 6100 is the anniversary edition

How do you think the V30s compare to the greenbacks?
#12
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #12
x86 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Winterthur, Switzerland
Posts: 8,654
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to George Necola
George Necola is offline
e.. for me the V30 is THE speaker for distortet guitars.. you know there is NO holy grail, just personal opinion.

ok.. you won.. :D I do not have all the marshall numbers in my head. do you have the blue one? very important, as it sound better than the normal one.

Marshall is no highgainamp (it helps tuning those bitches and boosting them with something like a dunlop pickupbooster or EH booster).

LABOGA is a brand from poland. Tue matsen (antfarmstudios) has 3, behemoth, annihilator, the rasmus... a lot of bands playing trough them. they have their very own sound.. hard to describe. very precise. doesnt work with all players.

but if you compare their boxes to Marshall, they Weigh the double:D 41 kg for the 4x12". that is better for your sound as those cheap chinese made marshallcabs.

there is also a 2x12" box oversized (the same with as the 4x12").

small condensors are "SOMETHIMES" the shit


cheers George
GMR
#13
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #13
GMR
Gear addict
 
GMR's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Montreal Canada

GMR is offline
a 2x12 cab by Marshall sounds like crap, i don't know about your homemade, but a 4x12 with vintage greenbacks does the trick for me, and I tried about every marshall cab out there, vintage to new side by side.
#14
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 2,632

Jonboy79 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
I hate to say it but your preamps are probably the weak link in the chain... The digi002 preamps are pretty bad...And bad preamps can cause some serious ear shrapnel on guitars.

The 57 and 421 aren't gonna be your problems... Although there are much much sweeter mics for cabs (r84, 121, 4038)... Ribbon mics really sound fantastic on cabs, especially the aforementioned.

Mic placement, room, amp placement in the room... are all huge factors too.


How does your amp sound when you are in the room playing it? If it sounds bad just listening in the room, then your cab can be giving you the mud, as well as bad tubes, blown resitors, and a whole variety of other things.

But I would definately think long and hard about your room and preamps

It isn't the pre's. I know a lot of digi bashers would like to think the pre's are completely unusuable but that isn't the case. They actually do pretty ok for dirty guitars, in fact. Bad rooms also aren't of the highest priority when it comes to recording dirty either, you can isolate a cab from a room fairly easily, plus he already said he liked his clean tones. I'd look more at the guitar, amp, and cab. One of those may not agree with the style trying to be played. I'd also try just sticking the 421 on the cab and listen to what you get.
Torwald
Thread Starter
#15
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #15
Gear nut
 
Torwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 103

Thread Starter
Torwald is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy79 View Post
It isn't the pre's. I know a lot of digi bashers would like to think the pre's are completely unusuable but that isn't the case. They actually do pretty ok for dirty guitars, in fact. Bad rooms also aren't of the highest priority when it comes to recording dirty either, you can isolate a cab from a room fairly easily, plus he already said he liked his clean tones. I'd look more at the guitar, amp, and cab. One of those may not agree with the style trying to be played. I'd also try just sticking the 421 on the cab and listen to what you get.
I tried sticking just the 421, and I didn't like it any better, I'm afraid. Something just ain't right.

I think your absolutely right, and that was what I was trying to say originally The more I hear, the more convinced I am that the speakers (or perhaps the amp, I'm gonna try some other distortion pedals and compare) are causing the main problem here.

GMR: I know the Marshalls aren't that good, but my home made is probably better. It's really heavy, made of MDF. I think it's a pretty good quality cab. The greenbacks are definately smoother, but they are impossible to find :( That's why I liked the new Marshall hand wired, the greenbacks in those are supposed to be "vintage treated". Whatever they did, they sound pretty good!

Last edited by Torwald; 5th February 2007 at 08:31 AM.. Reason: Sorry, misspelled GMR's user name...
#16
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 
woomanmoomin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,020

woomanmoomin is offline
The plot thickens

I doubt the actual tone being produced by the cab is the problem, unless it's some mechanical noise or something that you're only gonna hear with your head right next to the thing like a mic, because you've clearly got enough understanding of guitar to know whether what you're hearing in the room is anything like the tone you're aiming for. Your ears have to be the final arbiter on that one, and as you haven't already decided the tone you're hearing in the room is ass, it almost certainly isn't.

It's more likely to be something along the lines of bad reflections, wrong mic, blah blah, but if you like your guitar tone, you're at least half way there. (Getting the tone you want can be really hard.)

BUT... have we established that your speakers definitely are not even remotely ripped? Also, how are they mounted into the cab? Did you slot them in through the front and screw the rims in that way (i.e. to the front of the board, not the back)? I think you're supposed to get less phase attenuation that way, which would definitely be a good thing. And are the speakers screwed in good and tight?

Also, if you skimped a bit with the wood and it's not that thick or strong or well-fastened, your cab could be rattling about like a snake having a seizure. Hiwatt boast that their cabs are built with a certain thickness of marine-grade birch (ply) or something like that, and stuff like that does make a difference. If somebody used thin, cheap chipboard or something then the vibrations might well rip the guts out of the tone, certainly as far as recording were concerned.

??!!
#17
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #17
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
allencollins's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Rosedale Cemetery Singing Beach, MA
Posts: 4,868

allencollins is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction View Post
You might wanna try a 335 or a LesPaul instead of the tele aswell.
That's a given. Huck that hunk of fender crap in the fireplace. A tele will not sound good but boy can it keep you warm on a brittle New England winter eve.

For tone, a Gibson will never let you down.
#18
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #18
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,895

James Lugo is online now
A Les Paul wouldn't hurt, the Tele is not usually thick enough. Also try getting a cab with V30's. I love the Boogie cabs. Also watch tracking with to much distortion. It's better sometimes to go less gain more overdubs and play the rhythms tight as hell!!!!
#19
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 
woomanmoomin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,020

woomanmoomin is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
That's a given. Huck that hunk of fender crap in the fireplace. A tele will not sound good but boy can it keep you warm on a brittle New England winter eve.

For tone, a Gibson will never let you down.
Dude, if the guy wants a Fender, the guy wants a Fender. It worked for Keef and Hendrix, but I doubt that any of us did.
#20
4th February 2007
Old 4th February 2007
  #20
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 42

Naokiman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by woomanmoomin View Post
Dude, if the guy wants a Fender, the guy wants a Fender.
plus he's got a humbucker in the bridge (although it's a single coil sized humbucker). I've always wondered if the actual distance between the coils contributes to the humbucker sound. in other words, even though the JB junior is electronically a humbucker, does it tonally sound the same as a regular JB?

anyway, there are so many variables. the only thing we don't really know is the quality of the homemade cab. it could be anywhere from a great cab to something not so great. you mentioned that it's made of MDF. most people would say that better sounding cabs are made of ply or solid woods. of course, I'm sure there have been some great recordings made with mdf cabs so YMMV.

using a 4x12 but leaving two of the spots open is similar to what is called a "detuned" cab. a google/yahoo search should bring up some info on that.

I'm a fan of Greenback speakers. I've heard G12H30's are great too (also smooth and warm). then of course, I"m not a metal hi gain kinda guy. even when I need hi gain stuff, I prefer "vintagey" hi gain. I also like many of the new Eminence (I have the private jack and cannabis rex), and Weber stuff too.

overall though I doubt the speakers are your problem. and I definitely don't think it's the mics or the pres. that means it probably comes down to the guitar, the cab, or the amp (or the amp settings).

..........

btw, I just re-read the original post and you said "the sound of those are kinda harsh and unfriendly". so DEFINITELY work on getting a better sound outta your rig before even wondering if it's the recording chain.

I personally would swap out the speakers first. If you buy used speakers and they don't fix anything, then you can re-sell for little loss. I'd go with the Greenbacks or G12H30's or the Eminence or Weber equivalents. btw, most people (including me) who have tried the latest Eminence will tell you they're now as good or better than anything Celestion is making now. (of course they're blatant rip offs, but very well done rip offs!)

haha yes, I realize I changed my mind as I wrote this post but that's cuz I re-read the original. at the same time it kinda goes to show that it could be one or a combination of many factors.

btw, I have a tele that I love but it's definitely not the first guitar that I reach for when I want a good distorted tone! first choice for me is my Washburn WI66 Pro (most ppl would say it's somewhere between a Les Paul and an SG).
#21
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #21
Gear nut
 
Devina's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 99

Devina is offline
#22
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #22
Gear interested
 
Dwight Schrute's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 17

Dwight Schrute is offline
Personally, I'm gonna say it's the 421...out of my experience, the 421 makes guitars sound really nasally, almost like you're using a "crate" amp, regardless of what amp you're using...

Hope this helps..

-Chris
#23
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #23
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
allencollins's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Rosedale Cemetery Singing Beach, MA
Posts: 4,868

allencollins is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by woomanmoomin View Post
Dude, if the guy wants a Fender, the guy wants a Fender. It worked for Keef and Hendrix, but I doubt that any of us did.
It did work for hendrix but his sound was thin.
Who is keef? Kieth? his sound was even thinner

Sorry but stock fenders are thin. Always
have been always will. Single coils with a bolt on
is just plain whimpy

for distorted tone which this guy wants a tele won't work
#24
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
woomanmoomin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,020

woomanmoomin is offline
Fenders? Thin? So what if they are? What's wrong with thin? It worked for Mosrite, the Beach Boys, etc.

It's a question of taste. Go get some. Only kidding, except it IS just a matter of taste. Let's not turn this whole site into so much Fenders-are-sh#t-no-Gibsons-are-sh#t-no-Fenders-are-sh#t-no-Gibsons-are-sh#t mud-slinging that doesn't mean anything.

I like Gibsons, that guy likes Fenders. So freakin' what?! If somebody wants an apple, why tell him he ought to want an orange? Helloo in there.

Or should we all ditch our C12s and our 251s because they sound thin?!

P.S. Teles won't work for distorted?! What?! 'Satisfaction'!?! That may not be the modern tone this guy has in mind (whatever tone that is) but there are more flavours of distortion than rectified humbucker and I'm guessing a Tele can do some of them well enough, even if it's just a question of getting a big load of amps and turning them all up loud! Anyway, the guy has every right to try to find his own tone, using the guitar he likes. I figure we're here to help him, not correct him.

By the way, rectified-humbucker stuff mostly leaves me cold. Half of the time it sounds to me like testosterone poisoning pretending to be energy.
#25
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 2,632

Jonboy79 is offline
Alright just try the 57. I thought maybe the 421 would do it but I've always used a 57 and I've never had a tone I didn't like or couldn't fix. I use a Marshall 4x12 with the stock speakers and it sounds great, I'm wondering if you're cab being made of mdf might be the problem. I just peeled back some tolex from my Marshall and it looks like either high quality plywood or solid wood, not really sure but definately not mdf.
#26
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
 
woomanmoomin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,020

woomanmoomin is offline
MDF thing is sure to be the problem IMHO. Hadn't read that in the original post when I hazarded my dumb-ass ideas. MDF just does not handle the vibrations in the same way as decent plywood, let alone solid wood.
#27
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #27
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: A stoned throw from ground zero
Posts: 12,341

FFTT is offline
Is rediculous to argue which guitar sounds better.
Each one is great for what they do and I'm glad they are different.

There a right sound for any song out there and having a choice of different flavors
opens your possibilities.

Call a local shop with a listening room and try your amp through a few different configurations. If you get the sound you want just changing speakers, then
problem solved.

While you're there try other options and see what you come up with.
Torwald
Thread Starter
#28
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #28
Gear nut
 
Torwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 103

Thread Starter
Torwald is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by woomanmoomin View Post
I doubt the actual tone being produced by the cab is the problem, unless it's some mechanical noise or something that you're only gonna hear with your head right next to the thing like a mic, because you've clearly got enough understanding of guitar to know whether what you're hearing in the room is anything like the tone you're aiming for. Your ears have to be the final arbiter on that one, and as you haven't already decided the tone you're hearing in the room is ass, it almost certainly isn't.

It's more likely to be something along the lines of bad reflections, wrong mic, blah blah, but if you like your guitar tone, you're at least half way there. (Getting the tone you want can be really hard.)

BUT... have we established that your speakers definitely are not even remotely ripped? Also, how are they mounted into the cab? Did you slot them in through the front and screw the rims in that way (i.e. to the front of the board, not the back)? I think you're supposed to get less phase attenuation that way, which would definitely be a good thing. And are the speakers screwed in good and tight?

Also, if you skimped a bit with the wood and it's not that thick or strong or well-fastened, your cab could be rattling about like a snake having a seizure. Hiwatt boast that their cabs are built with a certain thickness of marine-grade birch (ply) or something like that, and stuff like that does make a difference. If somebody used thin, cheap chipboard or something then the vibrations might well rip the guts out of the tone, certainly as far as recording were concerned.

??!!
My cones are in very good condition, only had them for 1-2 years and they were brand new when I mounted them.

They are mounted to the back of the board (so to say not sinked through the front, but mouted from the backside. Was this a bad idea? The speakers have some soft material on that side so I figured this was the point?

The build quality of the cab is fairly good, if I dare say so, so I hope that's not the problem.
Torwald
Thread Starter
#29
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #29
Gear nut
 
Torwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 103

Thread Starter
Torwald is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
It did work for hendrix but his sound was thin.
Who is keef? Kieth? his sound was even thinner

Sorry but stock fenders are thin. Always
have been always will. Single coils with a bolt on
is just plain whimpy

for distorted tone which this guy wants a tele won't work
Sorry, but I said I already tried my les paul, it didn't do it for me. Whether the tele is whimpy or not, I am not the man to judge, but I like it, so I guess I'm a bit whimpy myself.
Torwald
Thread Starter
#30
5th February 2007
Old 5th February 2007
  #30
Gear nut
 
Torwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 103

Thread Starter
Torwald is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by woomanmoomin View Post
MDF thing is sure to be the problem IMHO. Hadn't read that in the original post when I hazarded my dumb-ass ideas. MDF just does not handle the vibrations in the same way as decent plywood, let alone solid wood.
Oooh, shiat, this I never though of!
I'mprettysurethismightbetheproblem.I'dLOVEtoWrightsomemoreonthis,butIvepouredCOFFEallovermygodammKEYBOARD.I'llcheckbacklaterwhenIveboughtaNEWone.GAAAAAHthisisreallyannoying!!!!!.Peaceoutmeanwhile!
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
James Guitar / So much gear, so little time!
1
spsnoise / So much gear, so little time!
4
jho / So much gear, so little time!
44
Jax / So much gear, so little time!
2

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.