Making the most of a Digidesign Mix+ System

[smarty-mart]

Dear Gear addicts, maybe you can help...
its not that new, but I like working with Logic and Digi Mix+ System, at the moment with an RME ADI2 (still under OS9 cause I have lots of plugs for this)
My sound is not too bad, but it could have more depth, power and transparence.

I want to expand a bit for about 5-6K $, (equipment is more expensive here than in US) and I thought Analog summing with the Dangerous 2bus and a RME ADI8 or a Lynx Aurora was a solution. I think for the Logic AND the Digidesign Summing is not the best, analog summing would bring some efforts.

Info from users who had the same problems and are now satisfied would be very, very fine!
Thank you.
Martin

[Damian Taylor]

Apogees

[smarty-mart]

ok but
the Apogee 16 interfaces are too expensive for me,
the ensemble is only for OSX
and the rosetta 800 is now over 4years old...
hmmm...?

[RCM - Ronan]

I have really tried the summing boxes (I am an analog console guy) but I think you should look at getting a nice analog stereo compressor and a nice analog stereo EQ) Its amazing how much running a mix into good compression and EQ can bring life to lifeless ITB tracks. (the is not meant to start an ITV vs OTB debate).

[smarty-mart]

thanks for your comment.

maybe the strategy was to first:
clear the signal path in depth and dimension with a Lynx aurora and the Dangerous 2bus

in the second step:
put analog gear like a Fatso or an Avalon after the 2bus

this should be quite nice.

Do you think the summing boxes are too expensive in relation of
what they really do for the money?

There are cheaper ones like the "Tegeler TSM1" with Tubes for about
1500€ but in a direct comparison I found the stereo image of the D2Bus better...

[Tibbon]

I'd be more suspect of your front end, and your heavy use of plugins (many have gotten a lot better since OS 9) than your convertors or mixbus. I think that making sure your front end is solid (pre-comp-mic, etc..) and that perhaps during mixing you're using more outboard.

Asides from that, you probably have a fine system. Plenty of albums were made on a Mix system and they all sounded fine.

If you are hell bent on new convertors, i might check into the AD8000's. They were pretty good, work well with PT, etc... I'm only afraid that the prices might be going back up since there are now firewire cards for them.

[smarty-mart]

thanks tibbon,
ok, my album
"Swingfood Mood" by TAPE FIVE (even signed in USA
is not sounding bad, its an intended retro sound.

But as I use full arrangements with real instruments and fx, lots of things in a mix happening l-r and so on, I want to make it a bit more clear for the 2nd album.

I really use lots of OS9 plugins, like Focusrite Filters, McDSP and Drawmer compressors, EchoFarms etc.
Front end with a Neumann TLM137, Fame Monster Tube, Mindprint Envoice and
Art Prochannel. The sound of single signals is quite good, it gets worse when there is a lot happening at the same time, thats why I tend to Analog Summing....

I'm even careful with the Apogee Rosetta800 cause its 4 years old with still the full price,
but your advise, the AD8000 is a quite old one?!

[Matt Grondin]

I don't care how old it is, the Rosetta 800 sounds ****ing good and has direct connectivity to PT Mix+ systems.

[Tibbon]

If it sounds good, it shouldn't matter really. Apogee designed some great stuff really ahead of it's time. More than anything they had a really good analogue section on their gear like the AD8000, as well as the Rosetta. I'd advise looking at the later version of it (had a much better analogue section, which overall made it sound better).

Then again, i wouldn't take my advise, but rather rent one, or bottow one and give it a shot first.

[smarty-mart]

thanks guys,

"direct connectivity" from the Rosetta 800 to Digi mix+?
You mean via AdatBridge like everything else?
I think the other possibility is an optional PCI Card (500$?)
which only works on OSX?

Mabe the newer Lynx Aurora has the same sound quality?

[Matt Grondin]

http://mercenary.com/xexca.html

Apogee makes the X-series expansion cards which will allow you to completely replace your existing Digidesign hardware, or supplement it since I'm sure you'd like to have the extra I/O (you'd need another farm card though), but at least your first 8 channels would be the killer Apogee Rosetta channels... I speak from personal experience. I track everything through the Rosetta 800 at 44.1 and I think it sounds as good as any other PT's rig I've heard (here's where some people roll their eyes and say that isn't exactly a standard worth comparing to, but trust me, it sounds good).

[Matt Grondin]

Oh dude, I'm sorry. I completely missed the fact that you are recording into Logic. Sorry if I led you astray.

[smarty-mart]

ok,

I don't think that for the hardware setup there is a difference if I record to ProTools or Logic...
but the expansion card for Apogee Rosetta800 works only under OSX?!
I´m´still on OS9. But I bought an Adat Bridge24 to connect any newer converter to the Digi mix+. This should be the same than with the Apogee card.

Anyway I'm just recognizing that an 8 ch. converter will be not enough to monitor the summed signals (all outs from the converter go into the summing)

[Rockman]

Hi guys,

I'm in exactly the same boat. I still use PT Mix Plus on OS9. About 2 years ago, I replaced my Digi hardware with an Apogee Rosetta 800/96 (although I record at 44.1). I also got a pair of nice Brent Averill 1084 mic pres. Bottom line, by improving my front end and convertors, it made a big difference.

However.. having said that, I am still struggling with the overall sound of my mixes. I use a lot of plugs as well (mostly Waves Renaissance EQs and compressors)... and I agree that for some reason, my individual tracks (when solo'ed) sound great... but once everything is in the mix together, things get rather small and mushy sounding. I've done extensive research on that issue over the past year... and like most people, I have considered analog summing... but haven't tried it yet.

Another thing to consider is to do an internet search on Paul Frindle. He has a lot of really interesting things to say about how to improve your ITB sound. Apparently, a lot of it has to do with your digital levels ITB. Apparently, regardless of what your Pro Tools meters show you (i.e. even if you are not in the red)... you may be clipping your signals a good deal, without even realizing it. Honestly, I have not had the chance to try Paul's suggestions for myself yet... but it's worth investigating. My understanding is that he is a pretty smart guy, who knows what he is talking about.

Interesting thread.. I'll keep watching it, and hope to learn a few things myself.

[bjornson]

I'm still using mix 4 also.
I bought a rosetta 800, an ad16 and da16.
This gives me a pretty high quality 24x24 recorder.
I've always used a large format analog console to mix through so I could use all my outboard and avoid the PT mix bus.

Works for me.

[Jules]

1) Nice converters
2) Summing box
3) Cranesong, URS, Sony plug ins (+ all the other latest and greatest)
4) nice stereo compressor for the mix
5) Extra nice A/D converters to capture the stereo mix
6) Nice monitors

+ try to use some nice outboard on the signals going into the summing box



My two Euro Cents

[smarty-mart]

Thanks guys.

I'm now at the point that I think I need a 16channel ad-da converter. Maybe 8 channels are not enough to make the best of a summing box, and for my situation I would have a problem with monitoring if I only have 8 outs.

The Apogee (16 AD/16 DA) solution is outside my pricerange, so I have to decide between Lynx Aurora16, or two RME ADI-8.

Does anyone have experience with the german "Mirror" summing box?
Maybe this is an alternative to the expensive Dangerous 2Bus....

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by dobby12

Oh dude, I'm sorry. I completely missed the fact that you are recording into Logic. Sorry if I led you astray.

If he's using Logic can't he still use the TDM bridge stuff and do it all the same way?

[Jules]

What Digidesign interfaces do you already have?
List your gear..

[smarty-mart]

At the moment I have a DigiMix System + two mixfarms going to a 882/20 Interface (dont use it for sound, its only the connection to the computer)
which is connected for rec + pb to an RME ADI2.

Now I bought a ADAT24 Bridge to be ready to connect any NEW Interface
to my Digidesign System. (and to put away the 882/20)

So, wanted stuff coming soon: 16 ch. converter and a summing box, as described before.
Good if not over 6000€ (dont know the actual $ change)