Help me find a bottom snare mic.

[evangelista]

Hello,

Every mic I try on snare bottom sounds like crap to me. Almost like it's broken.

I've tried:

sm57/58
414buls
mxl 603s
421
cad 95
beta58 (my fav so far, though still not great)
nt2
akg d3400

These go through a 1272 or a pm1000. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ivan

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by evangelista

Hello,

Every mic I try on snare bottom sounds like crap to me. Almost like it's broken.



Any suggestions?

Stick yer head down there while somebody's playing.

Realize that snare bottoms sound terrible.

Decide whether or not you still wish to capture this instrument from this dreadful perspective.

I'm not saying you don't.
Hey...
Some guys like the hammers and pedals on a piano.
The key clack on a tenor sax.
The sound of a Salvation Army band plummeting down a 70 story elevator shaft.












Some madmen even close mic the hi-hat.













It's crazy out there. Anything goes.

SM.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by evangelista

Hello,

Every mic I try on snare bottom sounds like crap to me. Almost like it's broken.

I've tried:

sm57/58
414buls
mxl 603s
421
cad 95
beta58 (my fav so far, though still not great)
nt2
akg d3400

These go through a 1272 or a pm1000. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ivan

yes, dont mic the bottom of the snare no matter what you use it will sound nasty.
Try micing the shell instead, and with the top mic rather than pointing it down at the head pull it about an inch back from the snare and point it across the head, as a matter of fact you can even have half the capsule poking over the top and the other half getting the shell also.

[evangelista]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies. I have experimented, of course, with not micing the bottom at all. I find I need it for loud drummers, just to mix in very, very little. So while I appreciate your input, my question still remains.

Ivan

[seb37000]

sm98 and 451 are good for this, when I use to mic bottom snare those where the two best mics for this, but really I dont do that any more, its like putting a mic on the beater side of the bass drum. tutt

[Monsterlab]

sm 57/any SD condensor >any tubey pre>gate>colorful comp - just mix in a tiny bit with the top mic splitting the shell and head. Yes it sounds bad by itself. And whats wrong with micing the beater side of the kick? I do it all the time - especially with drummers that have good touch with their foot.

[taturana]

i normally use a beta 57 for that ...

[Tom D Kelly]

beyer m201, hyper cardi dynamic.
can't go wrong.
tk

[kittonian]

Sennheiser 441. Always mic the bottom snare if you've got this mic and a great pre. Huge sound.

[doorknocker]

I use a bottom snare track more for musical than sonical reasons meaning that it totally depends on the part. I see it like parallel compression, it'll sound exagerrated on its own but it can be great in context. I've used 414s, 57s and 201s and they all seemed to work.

A Little Labs IBP could be more important than what kind of mic you use as the phase relation of the top and bottom mic is essential.

[Mike Caffrey]

I'd go with a dynamic. It dosn't matter much what you use.

Try not fighting the rattiness or shortening the relase with a transient designer. Leep it a little on the bright side and never listen to it solo'd.

Let you top mic be a little dark, and let the crack come from the bottom. Make it as white noise sounding as possible.

[Raw-Tracks]

I have good luck with AKG C451's, Shure SM81's or even '57's. I'm never really happy when I don't mic the bottom. I think it's pretty necessary for the rock recordings that I primarily work on.

[Janesaid2me]

personally have never tried this as i do not mic the bottom of the snare ever...but id say an audix i5...that wasnt on your list of mics youve tried...and hell if it doesnt sound good on it...then it has about a million other uses....its just as versatile as a 57...actually i like it better than a 57 in most scenarios...

[andychamp]

A Sennheiser 609 about +/- 1 inch from the bottom head, NOT close to the snare wires, has worked for me before. (I even put a picture of it in the "mic'd drum kits" thread). I've found recently though, that rotating the snare drum so that the wires are in-line with the top mic (Shure beta57A) is often enough to get more of that snap
Parallel gating/compression/EQ helps a lot, too!

[drBill]

I use the bottom often, but usually very sparingly. Of course it depends on the drummer. and i5 or beyer 201 sound pretty good - in a bad kind of way... But having the extra brightness lets me not reach for the EQ often.

[seb37000]

Originally Posted by Monsterlab

sm 57/any SD condensor >any tubey pre>gate>colorful comp - just mix in a tiny bit with the top mic splitting the shell and head. Yes it sounds bad by itself. And whats wrong with micing the beater side of the kick? I do it all the time - especially with drummers that have good touch with their foot.

Nothing wrong with using a mic on the beater side if it brings what you need, I just dont need it, I get enought of what I need from the mic inside the kick close to the skin

[nobtwiddler]

Audix D-3 on top..
D1- on Bottom

Cheers
Paul
www.millbrooksoundstudios.com

[joeq]

spend the money on some high-end snare wires - really

put a small square board under the snare stand to reflect some of that snare sound back up.

I think part of the reason under mics sound bad is because the sound of the snares is supposed to be diffused. Not sharp and in focus.

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by evangelista

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies. I have experimented, of course, with not micing the bottom at all. I find I need it for loud drummers, just to mix in very, very little. So while I appreciate your input, my question still remains.

Ivan

Uhmm...

What I was saying is:

You've already correctly ID'd a few of the usual suspects.

Beyer 201 and Beta57 could certainly be described as 2 of the 'classics'.

My little joke was: The offensive sound you're getting is par for the course.

Best regards,

SM.

[zodiaque]

try a beta 91. just put it on the floor under the snare.

maybe an unusual way to mic the bottom of a snare, but a very distinctive sound! i love it.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by evangelista

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies. I have experimented, of course, with not micing the bottom at all. I find I need it for loud drummers, just to mix in very, very little. So while I appreciate your input, my question still remains.

Ivan

INSTEAD of micing underneath, try the shell, I don't care what mic you try, under the snare sounds like sh#$. I understand you needing to get more snares and top in the sound especially if you use room mics.

[Kenny Gioia]

I'm using the Oktava MK012 on the bottom. SM57 on top.

Yeah, as Slipperman suggests, it sounds really bad soloed but usually you can't get a snare drum to be bright enuff (using top only) without using tons of EQ in the 3K area.
That makes it start to sound very tweaky. So if you keep it a little more natural you can then sneak in the bottom mic for that extra top end without killing the top mic.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by slipperman

Some madmen even close mic the hi-hat.

SM.

Say it ain't so. Keep me away from those nuts.

[Greg Curtis]

You are flipping phase 180' from the top mic, right?

Just want to be 100% sure. No insult intended.

Greg

.

Originally Posted by evangelista

Hello,

Every mic I try on snare bottom sounds like crap to me. Almost like it's broken.

I've tried:

sm57/58
414buls
mxl 603s
421
cad 95
beta58 (my fav so far, though still not great)
nt2
akg d3400

These go through a 1272 or a pm1000. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ivan

[Tim Farrant]

Another vote for the AKG C451, but you do need to get a 10 or 20dB pad for it.

[Tim Farrant]

Oh, and I'm one of the crazy idiots who close mic the hi hat - it's not always used in the mix, and if it is it's only a dribble. It's better to have it and not need it than need and not have it!

Tim

[BlueRadio]

Try Hi-pass filtering the bottom mic, and also compressing it to give it some pop. Often times, the compression can really help it behave. Mix it as though it were a free-standing high shelf EQ. As for me, a 57 or an AKG414 seem to work wonderfully. Really, the compression will help...don't know why, but it does.

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by Greg Curtis

You are flipping phase 180' from the top mic, right?

Just want to be 100% sure. No insult intended.

Greg

.

Only if it needs it.

Ivan

[Winey]

I would suggest trying a LDC (U87 is nice for this) down really low under the snare looking up and also slightly pointed towards the kick beater.
Clamp down with a nasty compressor and blend it in.
Not only does it wake up the snare, but it also adds punchy low end to the kick drum at the same time. It's touchy placement wise, but really great if you find the right spot.
It also sounds pretty dang cool all on it's own.

My favorite close up bottom snare mic is a MC012.

[picksail]

Funny. I actually ponder the idea of paying taxes and surprise colonics before concerning myself with which bottom snare mic I'm going to use. Anything will work in my opinion.

Hell, filtered white noise would work as well.

Usually I'll use the Octava MC-012. Though, I'd use just about anything that was already mounted on a mic stand.

More sonic blasphemy from your buddy, picksail.

[Nu-tra]

I get a good snare bottom with a beta 98. the ksm 137 is good but I like the tight polar patter on the beta 98