DigiDesign Mbox II Pro vs Mbox II or Mbox I (latency, quality etc)

[marcnyc]

Hello,
I have a recording studio but I need to be able to sometimes take something with me on the road or home or on a trip to do some work. Since I am a ProTools user and DigiDesign finally has something that will open my 88.2/96 sessions, I was wondering if any of you can share some real world experiences about the Mbox II Pro.

Aside from the obvious differences that you can read on the website, are there differences in the quality of sound between an Mbox II Pro and the Mbox II and I?

Most importantly, it's FireWire, does that mean less/decent latency?

I used an Mbox I (usb) on a trip once and I was recording something and it was terrible. It made it hard to record rhythm-sensitive material for the musician than was using headphones.

Any advice would be great.
Thanks

[nbattist]

I havn't used the MBox 2 line yet, but to my understanding, all three (Pro, standard and Mini) have zero-latency. It doesn't have anything to do with the USB vs. FireWire, but rather they have a built in mixer like the 002. The reason the Pro would have firewire is just because it has more ins/outs, it needs the higher bandwidth over the USB 1.1.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by nbattist

I havn't used the MBox 2 line yet, but to my understanding, all three (Pro, standard and Mini) have zero-latency. It doesn't have anything to do with the USB vs. FireWire, but rather they have a built in mixer like the 002. The reason the Pro would have firewire is just because it has more ins/outs, it needs the higher bandwidth over the USB 1.1.

the Pro doesn't have a 'mix' knob, instead it uses the software-based 'low latency monitoring' option [like the 002/002R]. the standard mbox 2 & the mini do have the 'mix' knobs to get zero-latency monitoring, there is no software-based option for LLM. so, technically, the Pro isn't zero-latency, whereas the other ones are.

[marcnyc]

how LL is it though? compared to an HD system... can one record rhythm-sensitive material on it?

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by marcnyc

how LL is it though? compared to an HD system... can one record rhythm-sensitive material on it?

Not as quick but decent. The advantage of LLM over the mix knob is you hear your other recorded material as well 'in sync' with your input, just without plug-ins.

in the case of whether you can record rhythm-sensitive material, I think it depends on the player. it can be done, I've done it, but you have to think ahead just a *touch* ...

[marcnyc]

so with an Mbox 2 Pro I won't be able to record, say, a guitar with AmpliTube plug ins for distortion or something like that?
That's what I was doing with Mbox I and the latency was horrible... my player was having a real hard time

[Whitecat]

it'll be a bit better than with the original Mbox simply due to the fact that it's firewire and not USB. but it won't be perfect, you won't be able to use 'low-latency monitoring' as that disables plug-ins. it depends how good your guitarist is I guess, and how low you can get your buffer.

[drethe5th]

Mute the track before recording. Then record enable and go.....
You still hear the guitar being played in the mix. If not loud enough, then bring down volume on other tracks and raise volume on master track or headphone/spkr outs.
Then you finish and bring all levels back to normal position.

Use the plugins after recording.

That's the work around.

[Eric Greedy]

I use ann Mbox2 with my mobile rig... with IT you have SPDIf which means I can get my channel in through my HEDD A/D and it sounds better on the road than a 192... you can't do that with any of the other Mbox's. Also... because it is firewire... the 'Lo latency' option can be toggled (in Pro Tools) which you can not do-the option is then grey'd out- on the others ( USB's much higher latency).... Mbox2 Pro is really like an digi002/3 with fewer ins and outs...

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by marcnyc

so with an Mbox 2 Pro I won't be able to record, say, a guitar with AmpliTube plug ins for distortion or something like that?
That's what I was doing with Mbox I and the latency was horrible... my player was having a real hard time

Assuming the MBox 2 Pro has the same options as the 002/3, you can set the buffer as low as 32 samples. Even 64 samples latency is virtually unnoticeable - it's less delay than having your amp a few meters away for example.

I think the original Mbox might only go down to 128 samples, which is noticeable, but it may well be the case that you didn't even have it this low when trying it before. Look up "buffer sizes" in the PT manual for more info (sorry if you know all this).

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Eric Greedy

I use ann Mbox2 with my mobile rig... with IT you have SPDIf which means I can get my channel in through my HEDD A/D and it sounds better on the road than a 192... you can't do that with any of the other Mbox's. Also... because it is firewire... the 'Lo latency' option can be toggled (in Pro Tools) which you can not do-the option is then grey'd out- on the others ( USB's much higher latency).... Mbox2 Pro is really like an digi002/3 with fewer ins and outs...

Both the Mbox 2 and the Mbox 2 Pro (which I presume you have, since you mention firewire have SPDIF.

[gearaddict]

Originally Posted by terminal3

it'll be a bit better than with the original Mbox simply due to the fact that it's firewire and not USB. but it won't be perfect, you won't be able to use 'low-latency monitoring' as that disables plug-ins. it depends how good your guitarist is I guess, and how low you can get your buffer.

Not true..The only reason it is firewire is because it has more preamps and shit to power, it has nothing to do with speed or LL, I have the 2 (not pro) cus I did not need the inputs and as far as I can tell, It works just as good as my 003!! I have zero problems with latency...as long as you keep your buffer around 500 and under..

[Unclenny]

Been tracking with MBox 1 for years.

Can't handle any latency. I have read so many latency discussions concerning MBox. This really is the way to go......

Originally Posted by drethe5th

Mute the track before recording. Then record enable and go.....

[danalog]

Originally Posted by gearaddict

Not true..The only reason it is firewire is because it has more preamps and shit to power, it has nothing to do with speed or LL, I have the 2 (not pro) cus I did not need the inputs and as far as I can tell, It works just as good as my 003!! I have zero problems with latency...as long as you keep your buffer around 500 and under..

Also, not true. The Mbox2 Pro has a power supply! That, to me, makes all the difference necessary to make this decision. Also, Firewire designates workload to the Mbox, not the CPU (like USB)...so yes, you should experience less latency depending on your CPU power.

[drpenguen]

i bought mbox 2 mini, while we were on tour, then
on next state, i have changed to mbox 2 pro, which is firewire...
mini sucked, in my case.... too much latency... macbookpro

mbox 2 pro comes with power supply,yes...
but it still works on mac laptop firewire connection without the AC adapter...
it takes couple of minutes to boot ( with ac adapter connected, it boots with the computer, no waiting time ) ...

[noraKat]

I don't know if its my imagination but I think the Mbox Pro has worse sound quality than the original Mbox. The original Mbox seems to sound Warmer and more flat while the high end on the Mbox Pro sounds a bit funny, maybe harsh, bright or not completely flat; maybe due to Op amp chips before the A/D converters or after D/A converters. The original Mbox was designed by Focusrite who probably made better selection of componentry.

Does anybody else notice the same thing?

In regards to zero latency... its all a bunch of crap! Zero latency to them means you can hear a mix of your input with a mix knob along with the output of your recordings which are NOT being heard with zero latency output. So if you record listening to your raw input with the output of Protools which has latency (and at the same time your recording input will have latency), Who knows what the relative timing will be.. never tried it but prob not spot on. The only way to make sure you have the exact relative timing of what you are recording to what HAS already been recorded is to listen to, and play to your input through Protools. The mind though can make the correction; basically you will be playing it before you hear it.

In regards to latency in general: how low you can set the latency depends on many things: your computer power and how it is set-up/configured (there is a configuration list of things to do at Digidesign). Also, what sort of processing Protools is doing.

With both boxes I notice that if I go for very low latency settings it will work sometimes, but when something happens that occupies processing, you will get an error and ProTools will stop. You can avoid the stopping in some cases by making a setting (forgot exactly where) to allow pops or errors in the audio (maybe just version 7). And also once so many errors have occurred, it doesn't seem to like the low latency setting and you either have to reboot, open a new project to keep the low latency setting, or just bring it up to a higher latency setting. On the long run, this will get annoying and you have to bring it up to a moderate latency setting to have a stable system anyway.

So to have a stable system, the latency on the Mbox 1 is not that far off from the Mbox 2 Pro even with the Firewire... yeah that sucks. However at lower latency settings the Mbox 2 Pro will [stop, pop, or give off errors] a little less often but will still give off errors at certain times depending on your activity.

Sorry can't give exact buffer settings, going off of memory.

- Nori