voiceover mic

dutchman · 17th January 2004

I'm searching a new mic recording voiceover at the studio where I work. We use a AKG C414 now, which is not a very good mic for voiceovers I think. We are thinking about a Neumann TLM170. Any comments about that? Other suggestions?

Bob Olhsson · 17th January 2004

A lot depends on your room acoustics. A Sennheiser 421 can make a superb voice-over mike along with the EV RE-20 and the Shure SM-7.

bing81 · 17th January 2004

I do a lot of voiceover work .. and for the mics, firstly I would say it depends very much on what kind of work you're doing (commercials? documentaries? spoken word?) .. and as per Bob's post, your room. I do a lot of commercials, and while I love mics like the 421 and others, we go for LD condensors. We have a 414 where I work a lot, and it's just not upfront enough for what we do, but is handy as a backup.

So .. I'd look around amongst the LD mics available, starting with things like the ADK "Hamburg" (kind of Neumannish) and moving up, perhaps looking at things like the Soundelux 195. I even know studios using the SP mics, but they're too "hyped" for me, and that scooped sound they have can be pretty weak on some voices. Neumann 87 is pretty much a standard, but personally I would find a 170 too "neutral". Clients always like Neumann, but I'd start with a 103, and see where that gets you. I notice you're in NL .. I'm in Belgium, and I'd look at the kind of voices you're doing. I find that what I need for Dutch-speaking (VL) voices, as opposed to French voices can be quite different (especially for women), and there's not many mics that cover that range.

But .. to be honest .. it's at least 75% in the voices themselves. Which isn't to say the mics don't matter, but the gear is of secondary importance after the voices and the way they're recorded.

IMHO of course ...

jbuntz · 17th January 2004

Almost every radio station I go to uses RE-20's. Could be my location. I've also seen 421's, SM7's and 414's. Radio v/o's are usually pretty compressed too between voice processors and broadcast compressors.

toledo3 · 17th January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by jbuntz
Almost every radio station I go to uses RE-20's.

Ditto. Pretty standard.

An interesting option might be the Lawson AIR.

bing81 · 17th January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by jbuntz
Almost every radio station I go to uses RE-20's. Could be my location. I've also seen 421's, SM7's and 414's. Radio v/o's are usually pretty compressed too between voice processors and broadcast compressors.

I don't dispute that except that a) in Europe, I've never seen a dynamic of any sort in any kind of broadcast situation and b) there's a difference between an "announcers" mic and the kind of mic used for commercial recording of radio and TV commercials. You're right on about "pretty compressed" though!

There's "voiceovers" and there's "voiceovers". I can only speak from my experience, which is fairly hyped radio and TV commercials.

Bing

chessparov · 17th January 2004

Bing, did you try out the SP T3?

I did at NAMM and was very impressed-even after
also trying the Telefunken USA microphones and
the Manley Reference (Gold), all wonderful sounding microphones IMHO.

Chris

Rossman · 18th January 2004

"An interesting option might be the Lawson AIR." I second that, I use a Lawson L47 and it works for most people.

Tim Halligan · 18th January 2004

I use an AKG Tube everyday, and get great results from male and female voices, whether for gentle corporate reads or screaming hard retail reads. I've had good results in the past from a 414, but you do need to bend it quite hard to get it to punch IMHO. Perhaps a slightly left-field option would be a Sennheiser MKH416/MK60. I've had great results in the past using these.
Neumann U87 is a great option, but the TLM170 is a tad neutral sounding, and would need some tweeking. The M147/149 mics sound stunning on gentler reads - esp deep MVO - but do not like being screamed at for hard retail.
Room sound is critical, so make sure that you test all candidates in your room.

Best of luck with your search.
Cheers,
Tim

ozraves · 18th January 2004

Some going choices in condensers are the Blue Mouse, Audio-Technica AT4047 and the Neumann U87. The Blue Baby Bottle can be fantastic with certain voices in VO.

In dynamics, some good choices are the EV RE20, Shure SM7, Senneheiser MD421 and the Audio-Technica ATM25.

Steve
www.mojopie.com

James Lehmann · 18th January 2004

I do loads of voice-overs, probably about 50% of these are into a Neumann U87, but I also find myself in front of other Neumanns, B&K (DPM), Brauner, Sanken and assorted other stuff.

It's hard to argue with the classic U87 sound for voice-overs, but if you're on a budget check out the Microtech Gefell M930 (which I reviewed here) which competes favourably with the Neumann TLM103 on sound and price - it's an excellent little voice-over mic with a big sound. I also had a chance recently to check out the Blue Mouse which I thought would work very well for V/O, but I'd steer clear of the Blue Baby Bottle for this application - it's just too coloured and un-natural IMHO. The Blue Kiwi would be even nicer but I would say it's way too big and heavy to be a sensible choice in a small vocal booth where you need to see the screen and a script etc.

Exmun · 18th January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by ozraves
...In dynamics, some good choices are the EV RE20, Shure SM7, Senneheiser MD421 and the Audio-Technica ATM25.

Steve
www.mojopie.com

Strangely enough, I wouldn't have thought that the ATM25 would have been a decent choice for VO. I was just playing around with it the other day and really like it for VO work. It's kinda sensitive to plosives and mouth air if you're too close, but a pop filter and this mic can give a very upfront and meaty VO sound.

Es.

**Remoteness** · 18th January 2004

I just received Neumann's new large diaphram cardioid condenser mic, called the BCM104. It has a removable basket and built in popscreen.

I haven't played with it yet. I hope to get a chance to test it out sometime next week. I'll report back when I hear it for myself.

The mic is a little more the a third of the price of a TLM170 and 100% designed for voice over and broadcast use. The TLM170 (as mentioned above) it not the right mic for this application.

Bastiaan · 18th January 2004

Hey Dutchie,

I work in Hilversum at Ciris, and we record a lot of voice-overs and stuff. The mic used for promo's on nederland 1, 2 and 3 is a Neumann TLM 103. Nederland 2 & 3 are treated with a t.c. electronic M5000 limiter on digibeta. The micpre is a box mounted in the vocal booth with 3 presets, and thats how we use it....because its there i have no idea about the brand...i think it is VIP...link

Nederland 1 uses a protools system (old system running pt5.0; i think pre G3/4/5) They go into some preamp (again not listed because its bad, but because i have no idea what it is...), then into an Yamaha o2r and then into protools and to digibeta. The signal also passes through a t.c. electronic Finalizer and a Junger limiter

zimv20 · 18th January 2004

my shure ksm32 is my go-to VO mic. not always great, but never bad.

Curious G · 19th January 2004

I've been doing v/o for a LONG time. 421 and re-20 served me well for 10 years... now I also use brauner valvet, e47, sm7, dragonfly, at4050/4040 as the need arises. I've got a knack for listening to talent in my room and putting up the right mic for the session. DVC and API EQ can also help... Yo! good luck!!

James Lehmann · 19th January 2004

I liked the Shure KSM32 when I tried it but I felt it was a bit too polite for voice-overs and would work better as an instrument mic.

I'm surprised to see the Blue Dragonfly mentioned here; I found this a very strange sounding mic with a highly artificial sound, although perhaps this works well on certain voices? - definitely not mine though!

The Blue Kiwi on the other hand... yum!

Curious G · 19th January 2004

The Dragonfly IS an oddball mic, certainly not general purpose!

Anybody using shotgun mics?

ozraves · 19th January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Exmun
Strangely enough, I wouldn't have thought that the ATM25 would have been a decent choice for VO. I was just playing around with it the other day and really like it for VO work. It's kinda sensitive to plosives and mouth air if you're too close, but a pop filter and this mic can give a very upfront and meaty VO sound.

Es.

I wouldn't have thought so either so I'm a recent convert as well. I'm pretty deep into some research into VO mics and I put the ATM25 into the pike.

ozraves · 19th January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Curious G
The Dragonfly IS an oddball mic, certainly not general purpose!

Anybody using shotgun mics?

I've read that the Dragonfly is an ode to the old AKG C12. I don't know if it's true or not as I've never gotten to play with an old C12 for an extended period to learn its sonics.

I've found the Dragonfly to be a general purpose mic moreso than I imagined when I first started with it.

zimv20 · 20th January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by James Lehmann

I'm surprised to see the Blue Dragonfly mentioned here; I found this a very strange sounding mic with a highly artificial sound, although perhaps this works well on certain voices? - definitely not mine though!

i've used it for VO, but it's more miss than hit. when it works, it works well.

besides its program-dependence, i've found it's also sensitive to the pre. if the voice is right, i can get good results w/ a DVC.

herbs97 · 20th January 2004

I have a 002 rack and a Cranesong spider. It is THE way to go. It's worth saving for. Granted you want to spend your money this instant but if you can hold out till you have a little more dough....call Todd Atlas at Soundpure in NC and I'm sure he can hook you up with a Spider for well well under the retail price of $7500. Check it out if you don't know what it is. www.cranesong.com It is an amazing front end for an LE system. I do a lot of acoustic recording myself and the only other pre I use is an Avalon 2022. The palette I have to work with isn't exactly very diverse but I'm still building. One thing is for sure, the setup sounds killer. As for compressors? I yield to other engineers here. I own one 1176 and an Avalon 747SP. And I'm hoping that I can buy a Manley Variable Mu or Cranesong STC-8 sometime next year. Oh and if you don't have monitors check out adam 2.0a's or 2.5a's. I have the latter and they sing with superlative beauty to me every day.

Cheers!

Herb Plimpton

Stizz · 20th January 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Curious G
Anybody using shotgun mics?

We use the Sennheiser 416, basically when doing ADR for films - but there are a few vo talent that prefer it as well. Generally we use U87 - TLM103 in a pinch.

dutchman · 21st January 2004

Thanks guys this really helped me. I am particulary interested in the results on the Neumann BCM104. So Remoter, When you have ome results I would like to here it.

**Remoteness** · 22nd January 2004

Tomorrow, I plan to do a shoot out this the Neumann BCM104.
The other mics I will be selling up will be as follows.

U87
TLM103
RE20
MD421
SM7

I pick these mics because they have been the standard for many years now...

I hope to post the results of the shoot out very soon.

bigbaby987 · 22nd January 2004

I'm the production manager at a couple of radio stations in New York City(both top 10

*not to be a arrogant bastard*) plus a counsultant for 2 of the major radio networks and RE20's along with SM7's are all you need. The real deal is your mic pre. That's going to make the difference. I'm using a Symetrix 528E. That's the digital one. I've also used avalon and valley pre's and personally I like the Symetrix because it is much more sterile and precise. Don't go too over the top. Understand that vocal(singing) mic's and v/o mic's have different characteristics. One thing you may want to know is that the SM7 doesn't have such a proximity factor like the RE20. To get a "good" signal from the RE20 you need to get within 6". However with the sm7 8-10" is cool.

My only exception to what i've mentioned is probably the soundelux u195, but that would be my last choice. why spend 4 to 5 hundred extra bucks...

btw the RE27 is a nice mic if you want crystal, crystal clear sound but loses a lot of warmth unlike it's predicesor the RE20.

lastly get a beautiful compressor if you want to make your voice big. i know one of the major voice guys and he uses an alesis 2620 and he's the big voice for over 100 stations world wide. Trust me if you ever just met the guy on the street you would never ever ever ever....especially after he spoke to you....know that he's doing this on his level.......never.....ie...he's done tv vo's for def jam, bet, atlantic records, greatest hits stuff and in real life he has a pretty squeaky voice.

NathanEldred · 22nd January 2004

It really depends. The old EV standby can sound good, but the modern voiceover world tends to be a little more competitive these days and guys are going for more of a presence in the upper mids in addition to the big proximity effect. My #1 choice for voiceover would be a Brauner Phantom C.

chessparov · 23rd January 2004

Big, with all due respect, my understanding is that the RE20 is valued for its LACK of proximity effect due to its Variable-D design vs. the SM7.
Perhaps that's what you meant.

Personal experience is limited, however, although I have the RE20's ancestor the EV 666.
(sounds like a ribbon BTW)

Is it fair to say that the RE20 is "smoother" than the SM7, whereas the SM7 can sound more ballsy when worked up close?

Chris

bigbaby987 · 23rd January 2004

chess.....it's really the other way around the sm7 is much smoother than the re20... i've been doing this for 15 years..trust me

jbuntz · 23rd January 2004

This new Neumann is actually designed for broadcast voice work. Just saw it in a catalog.

17th January 2004	#2
Bob Olhsson Motown legend Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Songwriter Gulch, Nashville TN Posts: 10,638	A lot depends on your room acoustics. A Sennheiser 421 can make a superb voice-over mike along with the EV RE-20 and the Shure SM-7. __________________ Bob's room 615 562-4346 Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233 Music Industry 2.0 Interview

17th January 2004	#3
bing81 Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 481	voiceover mic I do a lot of voiceover work .. and for the mics, firstly I would say it depends very much on what kind of work you're doing (commercials? documentaries? spoken word?) .. and as per Bob's post, your room. I do a lot of commercials, and while I love mics like the 421 and others, we go for LD condensors. We have a 414 where I work a lot, and it's just not upfront enough for what we do, but is handy as a backup. So .. I'd look around amongst the LD mics available, starting with things like the ADK "Hamburg" (kind of Neumannish) and moving up, perhaps looking at things like the Soundelux 195. I even know studios using the SP mics, but they're too "hyped" for me, and that scooped sound they have can be pretty weak on some voices. Neumann 87 is pretty much a standard, but personally I would find a 170 too "neutral". Clients always like Neumann, but I'd start with a 103, and see where that gets you. I notice you're in NL .. I'm in Belgium, and I'd look at the kind of voices you're doing. I find that what I need for Dutch-speaking (VL) voices, as opposed to French voices can be quite different (especially for women), and there's not many mics that cover that range. But .. to be honest .. it's at least 75% in the voices themselves. Which isn't to say the mics don't matter, but the gear is of secondary importance after the voices and the way they're recorded. IMHO of course ...

18th January 2004	#11
James Lehmann Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 2,309	I do loads of voice-overs, probably about 50% of these are into a Neumann U87, but I also find myself in front of other Neumanns, B&K (DPM), Brauner, Sanken and assorted other stuff. It's hard to argue with the classic U87 sound for voice-overs, but if you're on a budget check out the Microtech Gefell M930 (which I reviewed here) which competes favourably with the Neumann TLM103 on sound and price - it's an excellent little voice-over mic with a big sound. I also had a chance recently to check out the Blue Mouse which I thought would work very well for V/O, but I'd steer clear of the Blue Baby Bottle for this application - it's just too coloured and un-natural IMHO. The Blue Kiwi would be even nicer but I would say it's way too big and heavy to be a sensible choice in a small vocal booth where you need to see the screen and a script etc. __________________ James Lehmann Voice-Over Artist - Project Studio Jockey www.jameslehmann.net · Use your real name - keep Gearslutz authoritative, accountable and courteous. · Stop the superlatives madness - just say no to gear threads with the word 'best' in the title. · Words or WAVs? The former are interesting, the latter are convincing. Recession-busting initiative - trade goods for services: I will record voice-overs for you in exchange for gear.

18th January 2004	#13
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,311	I just received Neumann's new large diaphram cardioid condenser mic, called the BCM104. It has a removable basket and built in popscreen. I haven't played with it yet. I hope to get a chance to test it out sometime next week. I'll report back when I hear it for myself. The mic is a little more the a third of the price of a TLM170 and 100% designed for voice over and broadcast use. The TLM170 (as mentioned above) it not the right mic for this application. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network What about my Facebook Profile? Remoteness on Myspace

18th January 2004	#14
Bastiaan Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Arnhem, the Netherlands Posts: 145	Hey Dutchie, I work in Hilversum at Ciris, and we record a lot of voice-overs and stuff. The mic used for promo's on nederland 1, 2 and 3 is a Neumann TLM 103. Nederland 2 & 3 are treated with a t.c. electronic M5000 limiter on digibeta. The micpre is a box mounted in the vocal booth with 3 presets, and thats how we use it....because its there i have no idea about the brand...i think it is VIP...link Nederland 1 uses a protools system (old system running pt5.0; i think pre G3/4/5) They go into some preamp (again not listed because its bad, but because i have no idea what it is...), then into an Yamaha o2r and then into protools and to digibeta. The signal also passes through a t.c. electronic Finalizer and a Junger limiter __________________ "Not now, i have a meeting with the 2 Bob's"

17th January 2004	#1
dutchman Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 15 Thread Starter	voiceover mic I'm searching a new mic recording voiceover at the studio where I work. We use a AKG C414 now, which is not a very good mic for voiceovers I think. We are thinking about a Neumann TLM170. Any comments about that? Other suggestions?

17th January 2004	#4
jbuntz Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,716	Almost every radio station I go to uses RE-20's. Could be my location. I've also seen 421's, SM7's and 414's. Radio v/o's are usually pretty compressed too between voice processors and broadcast compressors.

17th January 2004	#7
chessparov Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,761	Bing, did you try out the SP T3? I did at NAMM and was very impressed-even after also trying the Telefunken USA microphones and the Manley Reference (Gold), all wonderful sounding microphones IMHO. Chris

18th January 2004	#8
Rossman Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: St. Louis Posts: 38	"An interesting option might be the Lawson AIR." I second that, I use a Lawson L47 and it works for most people.

18th January 2004	#9
Tim Halligan Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Perth,Western Australia Posts: 324	I use an AKG Tube everyday, and get great results from male and female voices, whether for gentle corporate reads or screaming hard retail reads. I've had good results in the past from a 414, but you do need to bend it quite hard to get it to punch IMHO. Perhaps a slightly left-field option would be a Sennheiser MKH416/MK60. I've had great results in the past using these. Neumann U87 is a great option, but the TLM170 is a tad neutral sounding, and would need some tweeking. The M147/149 mics sound stunning on gentler reads - esp deep MVO - but do not like being screamed at for hard retail. Room sound is critical, so make sure that you test all candidates in your room. Best of luck with your search. Cheers, Tim

18th January 2004	#10
ozraves Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,124	Some going choices in condensers are the Blue Mouse, Audio-Technica AT4047 and the Neumann U87. The Blue Baby Bottle can be fantastic with certain voices in VO. In dynamics, some good choices are the EV RE20, Shure SM7, Senneheiser MD421 and the Audio-Technica ATM25. Steve www.mojopie.com

18th January 2004	#15
zimv20 Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,622	my shure ksm32 is my go-to VO mic. not always great, but never bad.

19th January 2004	#16
Curious G Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 317	I've been doing v/o for a LONG time. 421 and re-20 served me well for 10 years... now I also use brauner valvet, e47, sm7, dragonfly, at4050/4040 as the need arises. I've got a knack for listening to talent in my room and putting up the right mic for the session. DVC and API EQ can also help... Yo! good luck!!

20th January 2004	#22
herbs97 Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA Posts: 42	I have a 002 rack and a Cranesong spider. It is THE way to go. It's worth saving for. Granted you want to spend your money this instant but if you can hold out till you have a little more dough....call Todd Atlas at Soundpure in NC and I'm sure he can hook you up with a Spider for well well under the retail price of $7500. Check it out if you don't know what it is. www.cranesong.com It is an amazing front end for an LE system. I do a lot of acoustic recording myself and the only other pre I use is an Avalon 2022. The palette I have to work with isn't exactly very diverse but I'm still building. One thing is for sure, the setup sounds killer. As for compressors? I yield to other engineers here. I own one 1176 and an Avalon 747SP. And I'm hoping that I can buy a Manley Variable Mu or Cranesong STC-8 sometime next year. Oh and if you don't have monitors check out adam 2.0a's or 2.5a's. I have the latter and they sing with superlative beauty to me every day. Cheers! Herb Plimpton

21st January 2004	#24
dutchman Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 15 Thread Starter	Thanks guys this really helped me. I am particulary interested in the results on the Neumann BCM104. So Remoter, When you have ome results I would like to here it.

22nd January 2004	#25
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,311	Tomorrow, I plan to do a shoot out this the Neumann BCM104. The other mics I will be selling up will be as follows. U87 TLM103 RE20 MD421 SM7 I pick these mics because they have been the standard for many years now... I hope to post the results of the shoot out very soon.

22nd January 2004	#26
bigbaby987 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Dallas Posts: 534	I'm the production manager at a couple of radio stations in New York City(both top 10 not to be a arrogant bastard) plus a counsultant for 2 of the major radio networks and RE20's along with SM7's are all you need. The real deal is your mic pre. That's going to make the difference. I'm using a Symetrix 528E. That's the digital one. I've also used avalon and valley pre's and personally I like the Symetrix because it is much more sterile and precise. Don't go too over the top. Understand that vocal(singing) mic's and v/o mic's have different characteristics. One thing you may want to know is that the SM7 doesn't have such a proximity factor like the RE20. To get a "good" signal from the RE20 you need to get within 6". However with the sm7 8-10" is cool. My only exception to what i've mentioned is probably the soundelux u195, but that would be my last choice. why spend 4 to 5 hundred extra bucks... btw the RE27 is a nice mic if you want crystal, crystal clear sound but loses a lot of warmth unlike it's predicesor the RE20. lastly get a beautiful compressor if you want to make your voice big. i know one of the major voice guys and he uses an alesis 2620 and he's the big voice for over 100 stations world wide. Trust me if you ever just met the guy on the street you would never ever ever ever....especially after he spoke to you....know that he's doing this on his level.......never.....ie...he's done tv vo's for def jam, bet, atlantic records, greatest hits stuff and in real life he has a pretty squeaky voice.

22nd January 2004	#27
NathanEldred Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Coast Central Florida Posts: 7,130	It really depends. The old EV standby can sound good, but the modern voiceover world tends to be a little more competitive these days and guys are going for more of a presence in the upper mids in addition to the big proximity effect. My #1 choice for voiceover would be a Brauner Phantom C. __________________ Nathan Eldred Visit Atlas Pro Audio USA Distributor for Buzz Audio Atlas Recording Studios, Inc.

23rd January 2004	#28
chessparov Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,761	Big, with all due respect, my understanding is that the RE20 is valued for its LACK of proximity effect due to its Variable-D design vs. the SM7. Perhaps that's what you meant. Personal experience is limited, however, although I have the RE20's ancestor the EV 666. (sounds like a ribbon BTW) Is it fair to say that the RE20 is "smoother" than the SM7, whereas the SM7 can sound more ballsy when worked up close? Chris

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