Nashville Engineers - How did you get your start?

[LivintheDream]

Hey, my name is Chris. I'm new to the board and this is my first post. I'm an intern at a studio in Nashville, and I'm curious to hear from other Nashville-based engineers and how you go your start. I'm nearing the end of the internship phase and have no idea what to do next.

[DeathMonkey]

I got my start by moving away from Nashville

Actually, my band was recording with a well respected independent producer, and he kinda took me under his wing. Even though I now live in Seattle, we still talk (I need to call him, btw).

I would say that moving from an internship, find people you like, and who can mentor you. I think this is a great way to move to the next level - I know that I learned so much just being around people who do this for a living, and by just being nice and respectful, they would let me ask questions, and eventually start giving me tips and tricks unsolicited. I was tremendously lucky to work with, or even just hang out with, some incredible talent, and a lot of it just people workin - as in no star names, just the people who got shit done on such a professional level.

I think so many people try to show off what they know when they get into those situations, no one wants to teach them anything. But people like to pass on their knowledge, I think, and if you can be friendly and inquisitive without being annoying ( a thin line for me, I tell ya!), people will really try to help you out. Ask for opinions, don't be afraid to ask for explanations sometimes, and don't be afraid to expose your own ignorance!


But don't do what I do on this board, lol... I run my mouth and wait for someone far smarter to correct me ...

[LivintheDream]

Originally Posted by DeathMonkey

Ask for opinions, don't be afraid to ask for explanations sometimes, and don't be afraid to expose your own ignorance!
...

That's basically what I'm trying to do. I've been in town and interning for less than a year. I know very little about how this business works, but I want to learn. From other engineers I've talked to, most of them, at some point, worked on staff somehwere. How do you land a staff gig? And also would I even WANT to land a staff gig?

[Mydog_Nixon]

I agree with DeathMonkey. When I was an assistant at a LA Studio, I learned so much just by watching and observing. If you are nice, the engineers will start showing you tips and tricks. Just be enthusiastic about it and they will keep showing you new stuff.

[LivintheDream]

Mydog...

How long did you intern, and what did you do when your internship was over?

[Mydog_Nixon]

i started off as a runner getting food, coffee, etc and quickly moved up into a assistant Engineer position. I did that for 3 and half years and worked with a lot of great engineers and producers. The hours were brutal, but an opportunity came up to do Post Audio with ProTools and I jumped on it. I had never worked with the program before taking the job, but I jumped in the fire and made it work. Stayed there for 3 years and became the head of audio. I have now been doing post audio with Pro Tools for over 10 years and it has been great. I miss doing the music side of the business, but Post is more reliable gig in terms of hours and money.

Thanks for asking.

[TREMORS]

Originally Posted by LivintheDream

Hey, my name is Chris. I'm new to the board and this is my first post. I'm an intern at a studio in Nashville, and I'm curious to hear from other Nashville-based engineers and how you go your start. I'm nearing the end of the internship phase and have no idea what to do next.

I would just keep showing up until they either ask you to leave, or cant afford it anymore.

-D

[LivintheDream]

Mydog...

What kind of post audio do you do? I'm interested in exploring that avenue as well (I'm currently a video editor, so I think I kind of have a feel for that) It's pretty cool that you were able to move up quickly though, a lot of guys have to hang out and work for free for a long time before getting paid. How often does job turnover happen in L.A. when it comes to staff gigs?

[sphereman]

Find a studio that will let you hang out there some. Be the first there and the last to leave. Be really nice but stay out of the way but be around when needed. Dont talk to much but be sure to "care" about whats going on. Ask the engineer questions when appropriate. (when nobody else is around, and not under the gun) They like to know that you really want to learn. Dont surf the internet on your laptop the whole time recording or mixing is going on. Ive been here for 15 years and most interns cant last in the studio for more than a few hours tops. I turn around to find that they left 3 hrs ago. The last intern that hung with me for 12 hours a day for 3 weeks is now my main assistant. Do all that and eventually an engineer may take you under his wing. By the way, after a few weeks of showing up at a studio and making yourself indespensible you might actually get paid. If you know Pro Tools, and can bail out some engineers that dont know it very well, that will really help.

[LivintheDream]

Originally Posted by sphereman

Find a studio that will let you hang out there some. Be the first there and the last to leave.

I go in when I can, which is generally on weekends. I have a full-time job during the week, and there are already too many other interns working during the week, so weekends are my thing. But I'm there every weekend, whether there's something big going on or not. Would a good strategy be to just keep hangin out and helping until they offer something, or should I try to spread out and try to get in somewhere else to get a different experience?

[Mydog_Nixon]

Livinginthedream,

I do mixing and sound design television promos, theatrical trailers, and produce radio spots for almost every network. I like working on the short form rather than the long form shows. The turnover is rare once you "get in", the best way to do it is by either interning or work you way up from a production assistant, vault etc.

You said that your were Video Editor, why make the change? There are more opportunities for the video editors both AVID and Final Cut. Not only do they tend to make more money, they have seem to be the ones that move into Executive and Producer type of roles. Of course the video guys are not as slutty for gear that we are.

Like the other poster said, work for free as much as you can. When I was in school, I would help the Engineer/Instructor on his after hours sessions from Midnight until 8am for free. Sony Music Studios called him two days before I graduated and asked him if he could recommend someone and he did. That got my foot in the door to make coffee etc, but it ultimately opened the right doors.

Good luck

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by LivintheDream

I go in when I can, which is generally on weekends. I have a full-time job during the week, and there are already too many other interns working during the week, so weekends are my thing. But I'm there every weekend, whether there's something big going on or not. Would a good strategy be to just keep hangin out and helping until they offer something, or should I try to spread out and try to get in somewhere else to get a different experience?

When I was starting out, I was the only intern there. Although I did intern at a few studios initially and then landed at one. It became clear to me which studio had the better work and the chance of letting me stay and get paid. I favored a few of the mid level type studios as opposed to the big high dollar places so I had a better chance at getting in (less interns). There are several mid level type studios doing "big time" sessions so your exposure to engineering is of quality work. Not just some cheap low end demo only studio.

[LivintheDream]

Sphere, how did you manage to get an additional internship? It's my understanding that you have to be affiliated with a school to do an internship. Most schools only let you do one. Most of the public studios in Nashville won't let someone intern without school affiliation. Did you intern somewhere else smaller?

[LivintheDream]

Mydog,


How do theatrical trailors work? I always thought that those were done in-house. Do you get a alot of business from that? I bet those are fun to work on.

I actually would't mind pursuing other avenues in video, but right now I work at a local broadcast station. Not a lot of $$. If I took another job in video, it'd have to be a production house or cable.

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by LivintheDream

Sphere, how did you manage to get an additional internship? It's my understanding that you have to be affiliated with a school to do an internship. Most schools only let you do one. Most of the public studios in Nashville won't let someone intern without school affiliation. Did you intern somewhere else smaller?

That was back in 1991. And i did come from a school. But there was no time limit back then. After about 5 months they started to pay me. Things were a bit different then. But Im sure there are studios that will let you hang around and not be an official intern. If youre of good help why would they not let you stay around unless its an intern factory. Remember, all of the big studios will always have a huge list of interns and they will rotate every few months. The smaller less fancy studios may have none. May not see as many high dollar master tracking sessions but you can still learn from some really good well seasoned engineers.

Mills Logan

[Jules]

Internship over?

So whats the deal? You get to run errands for them for a few weeks than they get someone new?

No vacancies for you to stay on and become a full time runner / intern / part of the studio team?

[warmer]

Not really about interns and also experience of London not USA but...

Alot of the post places do week long 'interviews' where they get a few people to do the job but don't pay you then they 'interview' the next people! However my girlfriend said she could only do a day as she worked full time, went in was friendly and got on well with the clients so they employed her (much to the anoyance of the people who had been there all week unpaid). I had a similar experience (but I knew the owners) they want someone who the clients are going to warm to very quickly. This is talking about entry level runner kinda jobs but you can move up pretty quickly and do all your overtime helping out the engineers sometimes even paid.

So I guess I would just add to be really open to the clients and not just concentrate on what you want to be doing/learning.

[LivintheDream]

Originally Posted by Jules

Internship over?

So whats the deal? You get to run errands for them for a few weeks than they get someone new?

No vacancies for you to stay on and become a full time runner / intern / part of the studio team?

Pretty much. The issue is really a fear of getting audited. From what I understand, it is illegal for a studio to employ an intern that is not receiving credit from a school. Therefore, when a credited internship ends, the intern must leave. I know that a few of the places in nashville have gotten in trouble by the IRS for having interns that weren't from a school (I personally think this is bulls**t, if a person wants to come voluntarilly, why not let them? It's not forced labor)

Nashville dudes, correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by LivintheDream

Pretty much. The issue is really a fear of getting audited. From what I understand, it is illegal for a studio to employ an intern that is not receiving credit from a school. Therefore, when a credited internship ends, the intern must leave. I know that a few of the places in nashville have gotten in trouble by the IRS for having interns that weren't from a school (I personally think this is bulls**t, if a person wants to come voluntarilly, why not let them? It's not forced labor)

Nashville dudes, correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Yep. Thats correct. Im at one of the studios right now that got it for having an "intern festival".

[LivintheDream]

Sphereman,

So here's the question. What must a person do to increase their chances of landing a job and get more experience once the internship ends? It seems to me that guys that get staff gigs get them largely as a result of luck. They just happened to be interning at a place and doing a decent job and somebody happened to quit or go freelance at the same time. Meanwhile talented guys can't get a break because their internship ended. Out of sight, out of mind. They slipped below the radar. So what is the key? What should the next step be after the internship? (This is assuming that another internship is not possible due to the issues we've already pointed out)

BTW I really appreciate all of your advice. I'm soaking it up.

[TREMORS]

Originally Posted by sphereman

Yep. Thats correct. Im at one of the studios right now that got it for having an "intern festival".

Not trying to thread hi-jack, but really?
I mean, how do you find a job, then?
Have we reached the point that you must have a 4 year degree?

Wow, I find this really confusing.
I've interned, and didnt go to school, and most of the people I met and worked with have said that with my age, and knowledge, I dont NEED to go school, at least not the Full Sail/SAE kinda places.
Im in no way slagging those kind of schools, I just think they would be teaching me things I already know.
And, a 4 year degree in Electrical Engineering or something is seeming less feasible with my age.

I had a whole "want to move to Nashville' thread a few months ago.
Want to move to nashville..
Im not going to move this year, cause of my father's health, but was hoping to try again this time next year.

Man, this is depressing. I would take the lowest job on the totem pole, but I cant afford to work for free anymore. But, if even interning doesnt lead anywhere, what next? Just try and freelance it (something I am trying to do, anyway)?
My savings are zapped!!!!

However, I am leaving for Vegas tomorrow, so I can dfegad some more money away!

I wish you luck, Chris/LivingtheDream.
I'm soaking this up, too.
Maybe my next trip to Nashville we can have a beer.

-D

[OKden]

Originally Posted by LivintheDream

The issue is really a fear of getting audited. From what I understand, it is illegal for a studio to employ an intern that is not receiving credit from a school. Therefore, when a credited internship ends, the intern must leave. I know that a few of the places in nashville have gotten in trouble by the IRS for having interns that weren't from a school (I personally think this is bulls**t, if a person wants to come voluntarilly, why not let them? It's not forced labor)

Nashville dudes, correct me if I'm wrong about this.

You are correct about the labor laws. This also gives studio managers good reason to not allow old interns to hang out when the term is over. "I'd like to let you come around, but it's against the law".

Personally, I don't see why studios don't set up their own "6 month certificate" that people could work toward. Why not pay the people that are giving you the education?

[LivintheDream]

Is anyone here a GM? Or at least has some input in the hiring of new personell at studios? I'd like to hear from the horse's mouth how the hiring process goes at commercial studios. When a spot comes open, where do managers look first? Old interns? Referalls from other GMs? What does that process look like and how does one even find out about openings? It all just seems like a closed shop to me. There have to be entry-points besides just being a current intern (which, as we've discussed, has a definant shelf-life)

Tremors: I agree that you don't need to go through FullSail or any other pro school. If you really are already knowledgable about audio, I would recommend Get-a-Mentor or Recording Connection. I know those "apprentice" programs have been dogged on here, but the truth of the matter is if you find the right studio, it can work. It's your responsibility to find a good place though. Just look at the program as a way to get yourself in the door. Once your there, bust ass. It's a helluva lot cheaper than pro schools...

[DeathMonkey]

The work around for this is that while the STUDIO can't have you as an intern, being an unpaid assistant - or a guest - to a producer or engineer is fine. I think the key is that while you are interning, find an engineer or producer to mentor you, and have them invite you along on subsequent sessions - so you are "affiliated" with a producer or engineer, not the studio.

The fact is that getting experience is a long and arduous task. Even getting artists and bands in to a studio FOR FREE to practice your chops is sometimes tough. In a place like Nashville, where everyone has talent and "book larnin" what gets you invited back is personality and work ethic.

[mattallen]

Really first and foremost I would just say be careful about what you get yourself into.

This whole free labor deal, college credit or not, is really kind of bogus. I moved to town for an internship I interviewed for and was there 3 months and I didn't get to watch even one session take place! Now how was that really even worth my college credit. This is a very popular music row smaller studio! Now sure you might think I must have been an asshole, well on the contrary! I had that place very clean, tidy and kept my mouth shut! I decided to leave because I found something else of interest.

I'm not trying to turn this into the old "pay your dues, work for free, college for audio is dumb thread" so please, let's not even get into that.

You're going to have to find a place you really want to intern at or better yet, actually get PAID to work! Imagine that.

but in closing the studio manager above told me "Nashville runs on free labor."
Hard to land a gig with people of that mentality.

[LivintheDream]

Originally Posted by OKden

You are correct about the labor laws. This also gives studio managers good reason to not allow old interns to hang out when the term is over. "I'd like to let you come around, but it's against the law".

Personally, I don't see why studios don't set up their own "6 month certificate" that people could work toward. Why not pay the people that are giving you the education?

That's an interesting concept, but I think in order for it to be legit, it has to have some form of creditation.

[sphereman]

One thing I must say here. Over the past 15 years of working here, I can count on maybe one hand how many interns have worked with me that I would have kept. Im still of the concept that a guy with the right credentials (that is: sense, personality, focus, of course talent, and the technical side of things, also remember this is a people business) will get noticed by either a studio manager or a freelance engineer or producer. My assistant that I hire all of the time I stole from an intern factory out in Franklin. He had been there for about a year. I hire him as much as I can. If you really want to do it it will work out. Just pay attention and if your getting abused at one studio, try moving to another one. For every 250 interns out there, there might be 3 or 4 worth keeping around.

[LivintheDream]

I'd like to believe that, but it makes it hard to be visible when you have to leave after the internship. I mean, if you were a GM, who would you hire for a vacant spot? A current intern who you think has potential, or another intern that has potential, but was an intern six months ago? You're going to hire the guy that's with you now. Why pick up the phone and try to track that guy down when you have one right in front of you?

[sphereman]

Go to a studio with less interns.

[LivintheDream]

Do you think a smaller studio would accept a non-school intern?