what's a good guitar for "Nashville" tuning

[theblotted]

i was reading the thread "Guitars in Mainstream Pop/Rock", and jmikeperkins mentioned "Nashville" tuning guitars ("use the lighter top 6 octive strings of a 12 string and put those on a 6 string guitar").

i was wondering, for those of you guys out there using this technique... do you use the same guitar, restring it and play it? or do you have a special "nashville" tuned guitar specifically for this purpose?

i would think it'd be the latter, otherwise it's 1) PITA to restring; 2) PITA to re-intonate; 3) most good guitars works well with a particular guage. yes, i've heard that changing different guages on an acoustic can help "open" the wood more...

so the question is: what's a good guitar for "Nashville" tuning? the regular Fender Strat? Martins? etc etc... what's your choice of weapon?

[dbbubba]

Almost every session player I have ever recorded had a seperate acoustic that was tuned to the "Nashville" tuning. If anything, they needed the seperate GTR so they could go to it in a session quickly for the overdub. Re-stringing would be pretty impractical in session work! Generally, once the band completed a good take (in my experience, C&W sessions have a fairly complete band playing the session) the ACSTC player would pick up the "Nashville" tuned GTR and be ready to track it before moving to the next cut.

You can also use a slightly less expensive ACSTC than the regular tuned GTR.
There isn't as much bass resonance required since the tuning is higher by an octave, so bass response isn't as critical.

Another "tuning" that you might want to explore is the use of a capo on the DBL track.
Say the song is in G.
You would do your first track in normal tuning and fingering.
You would then DBL track the same GTR, but with a capo at the 3rd fret.
You would finger the GTR like you were in E.
The chords will be moved up an inversion and most of the notes of the chords that were NOT open strings in normal tuning will now be open strings with use of the capo.
I have not done an ACSTC DBL that didn't involve a capo in twenty years!

Using the Nashville "number chart" system makes doing the capo thing MUCH easier as well.
That Little Adam, is another story.

[picksail]

Considering this guitar would be a 'utility' guitar and not so much a primary instrument, you could get away with pretty much any guitar that can withstand the tension.

Just spending $50 to have it set-up to properly will go a long way.

Give David Neely a call. He's a awesome.

He's located above Mesa Boogie on Sunset/Vista(?) right across from Guitar Center.

[doorknocker]

I did a few 'Nashville' tracks with my Gibson '59 LG-2, which is a smaller-body guitar and it worked great. But I'm also thinking about setting up a guitar permanently for this.

What are your experiences with a smaller-bodied design like say a LG-2 vs. a larger-body instrument like a 12-string normally would be?

What about setting up a parlor-sized guitar for Nashville tuning? There are even smaller 3/4 LG-2s that might be great for this.

BTW, D'Daddario makes a 6-string 'Nashville' set, this is very convenient so that you don't have to waste 12-string sets!

[5down1up]

different tunings are fun. i am trying to take the nashville approach and turn down to C. so the capo @ the 4ths fret makes it E-Tuning. Sounds very good imho but is going to be out of tune quickly.

what string gauges are yall using ?

p.s had the pleasure to try " new standart tuning " on an electric. awesome sound textures.

[doorknocker]

http://www.daddario.com/DADProdDetai...D=1&Class=AABA

[5down1up]

thx andi , already saw the d´addario string set posted in your previous post

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Using the Nashville "number chart" system makes doing the capo thing MUCH easier as well.
That Little Adam, is another story.

Juicylime likes stories! Please go on....

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by juicylime

Juicylime likes stories! Please go on....

i second this.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by picksail

Considering this guitar would be a 'utility' guitar and not so much a primary instrument, you could get away with pretty much any guitar that can withstand the tension.

Just spending $50 to have it set-up to properly will go a long way.

Give David Neely a call. He's a awesome.

He's located above Mesa Boogie on Sunset/Vista(?) right across from Guitar Center.

sweet thanks, i'll look him up ASAP after my current projects are done!

btw, great job on the "longest" post, really dug that one. thumbsup

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Another "tuning" that you might want to explore is the use of a capo on the DBL track.
Say the song is in G.
You would do your first track in normal tuning and fingering.
You would then DBL track the same GTR, but with a capo at the 3rd fret.
You would finger the GTR like you were in E.
The chords will be moved up an inversion and most of the notes of the chords that were NOT open strings in normal tuning will now be open strings with use of the capo.
I have not done an ACSTC DBL that didn't involve a capo in twenty years!

when tuning capo'd guitars, is it better to tune then capo, or capo then tune?

the latter makes more sense, but the intonation gets all out of whack IME. like you mentioned, intonating during session is impractical; but it's almost necessary....

[w2w]

Also,try a Gretsch "Nashville"

[picksail]

Originally Posted by theblotted

when tuning capo'd guitars, is it better to tune then capo, or capo then tune?

Actually, I tune then retune once I get the capo on there.

...don't ask me why... I'm rertarded.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by theblotted

sweet thanks, i'll look him up ASAP after my current projects are done!

btw, great job on the "longest" post, really dug that one. thumbsup

Yeah David's cool.

He's done a lot of great work for Lugo.

He sets up guitars for a ton of top players in town.

Dave Stewart told me that he also sends his guitars to David Neely.


*BTW, thanks for the kudos on the 'other' post.

You'd think more people would get involved, but I guess not too many people here are doing productions in that genre.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by picksail

Actually, I tune then retune once I get the capo on there.

Yes. Then your strings have the best shot at not slipping sharp/flat as you play. The tension buildup from tuning "through" the capo will make tuning unstable until it settles, so this must be minimized.

If a string is a little bit sharp, give it a pull to see if it settles down (flatter) before loosening the tuners. Actually, that rule applies regardless.

Also, this is a great argument for >NOT< using spring-loaded "one-hand" capos, with one-size-fits-all tension. Just as with your fingers, less is more -- less tension -- and place the capo RIGHT BEHIND the fret, not in the middle. In the middle not only allows the capo maximum leverage for pushing the strings sharp; it also (just as with fingers) will allow buzzes to creep in, since the tension isn't maximized string-to-fret, WHERE YOU NEED IT.

Different sized necks need different "sized" capos -- the Shubb can be adjusted to fit.

[vodka gimli]

Yes, let's talk capos a little. Not a fan of the Kyser - despite it being the handiest and quickest for live gigs. A set tension spring has a pre-determined amount of pressure that it applies to the strings, in the Kysers' case, too much pressure. The goal is to have the capo be a pseudo finger NOT a vise clamp.

Shubbs are fine, but I really like the new Planet Waves NS Capo designed by Ned Steinberger. Aircraft aluminum makes it really light weight, and the mechanism is tightened by a precision screw, giving just enough pressure to hold the strings down, but no so much as to pull them out of tune. The Dunlop Victor capo is similar, and the King of Capos is the pricey but wonderful G7th.

I have my cheapest acoustic strung in Nashville tuning and it sounds fine. I would suggest getting a guitar with a responsive top, since the lack of heavy-gauged strings is not going to drive the top very hard. Much of the sound is from the strings themselves. A neat alternative is to use a Martin Backpacker as a high-strung. You can get some pretty convincing dulcimer/banjo/mandolin tones from that guitar. It's a must in any studio, in standard tuning or Nashville.

I just used it with guitarist Bob Britt as a faux ukelele at a gig where B.J. Thomas was singing "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head". We strung it with classical nylon strings and faked the uke part most convincingly.

[Oldone]

I use the G7th; fast, no tuning stretch on the strings. Always in tune up the neck. Great product.

Many of the older Alvarez guitars had real Brazillian Rosewood backs and Spruce tops. They make great Nashville tuning guitars and are cheap.

[Subsonic]

I have a cheap old $100 yamaha that I use for Nashville tuning. It was my first guitar when I was a kid, and it wouldn't get any use otherwise. As others have echoed, I don't believe you need a great instrument for Nashville tuning. It's an effect type instrument, and rarely in the front of the mix, so great quality is not really a neccessity. Whatever you got lying around that's not getting use should do just fine IMO.

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano

Yes. Then your strings have the best shot at not slipping sharp/flat as you play. The tension buildup from tuning "through" the capo will make tuning unstable until it settles, so this must be minimized.

If a string is a little bit sharp, give it a pull to see if it settles down (flatter) before loosening the tuners. Actually, that rule applies regardless.

Also, this is a great argument for >NOT< using spring-loaded "one-hand" capos, with one-size-fits-all tension. Just as with your fingers, less is more -- less tension -- and place the capo RIGHT BEHIND the fret, not in the middle. In the middle not only allows the capo maximum leverage for pushing the strings sharp; it also (just as with fingers) will allow buzzes to creep in, since the tension isn't maximized string-to-fret, WHERE YOU NEED IT.

Different sized necks need different "sized" capos -- the Shubb can be adjusted to fit.

Good post.

I'm going to try and turn my mostly redundant Yamaha acoustic into a nashville beast and see what it does for me. One thing on capos, the y swallow tone. I hate even admitting that fact but there's no two ways about it. At least they swallow it on my Lowden. YMMV

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by Subsonic

I have a cheap old $100 yamaha that I use for Nashville tuning. It was my first guitar when I was a kid, and it wouldn't get any use otherwise. As others have echoed, I don't believe you need a great instrument for Nashville tuning. It's an effect type instrument, and rarely in the front of the mix, so great quality is not really a neccessity. Whatever you got lying around that's not getting use should do just fine IMO.

+1

The "musical quality" of a guitar part played in Nashville tuning is so distinctive that the "timbral quality" of the instrument really takes a back seat. After trying a bunch of different guitars strung up that way I settled on the shittiest one in my collection: a Vox Phantom with only one fully functional pickup (plus one partially functional pickup, and a hole where the third used to be) and fret job that looks like it was installed with a power stapler from across the room. Nasty guitar, hard to play, hard to get a conventional "decent" sound out of...but as soon as you string it up in Nashville tuning those parts just naturally exude the chime and piquant close-interval voicings that make the part sit perfectly in an arrangement.

In short: use anything.

[scrubs]

I agree with the others who have said to have a separate guitar and get it set up for Nashville, as the truss rod will likely need adjustment due to the tension difference on the neck.

Mine is also a cheap Yamaha dreadnought that I got "free" from GC for buying a 10-pack of strings. Works fine for the Nashville thing. D'Addario makes a Nashville string set, so you don't have to buy a 12-string set.

[TRW]

Think I'm going to get a Taylor Baby or Breedlove Passport traveller for this very job, nice to have a permanent tool for the job.

-Tom

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Oldone

Always in tune up the neck.

this is the thing i am scratching my head over with.

since the whole point of Nashville tuning is to double up and give another dimension, it's more crucial to be in-tune (as opposed to timbre), correct?

but, let's say you got a nicely intonated guitar. despite of the natural open strings being in tune, when you press other frets, say barring the 3rd fret, these notes are not exactly at 0cents. closer, but not precise.

and tuning at the capo, this will affect other frets there-on after. so press the 3rd fret from the capo (6th fret in this example), it'll be really out of tune; cuz the intonation is not set from the capo (or 3rd fret).

...i hope that makes sense.

hence the question, better to follow the tuning at open string (since it's already intonated to the guitar/truss rod tension), or follow the tuning at capo?

btw: any other good example of songs where you can hear the Nashville tuning in action?

[picksail]

That's the nature of the instrument.

Uneven temperment sucks.

At least you won't have to apply chorus/pitch shifting later.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by juicylime

One thing on capos, the y swallow tone.

Think Jeff Buckley "Hallelujah" -- capo 5...no shortage of tone there.

Or "Solar Sister" by The Posies -- capo 2, tune "E" to "D"

Or "Legal Kill" by King's X -- same way, with a 12-string (or doubled???)

All 3 of those songs have KILLER tone!

[Colorblind]

I never realized Solar Sister was played with a capo. One of the best rock songs of the last 20 years.

C

[Oldone]

Originally Posted by theblotted

this is the thing i am scratching my head over with.

since the whole point of Nashville tuning is to double up and give another dimension, it's more crucial to be in-tune (as opposed to timbre), correct?

but, let's say you got a nicely intonated guitar. despite of the natural open strings being in tune, when you press other frets, say barring the 3rd fret, these notes are not exactly at 0cents. closer, but not precise.

and tuning at the capo, this will affect other frets there-on after. so press the 3rd fret from the capo (6th fret in this example), it'll be really out of tune; cuz the intonation is not set from the capo (or 3rd fret).

...i hope that makes sense.

hence the question, better to follow the tuning at open string (since it's already intonated to the guitar/truss rod tension), or follow the tuning at capo?

btw: any other good example of songs where you can hear the Nashville tuning in action?

If I had a guitar that wouldn't stay in tune up the neck (speaking acoustic here) I would get the bridge adjusted (or sell it). On an electric bridges are adjustable so this is not a problem.

Really...a guitar that can't keep intonation is not worth playing.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Oldone

If I had a guitar that wouldn't stay in tune up the neck (speaking acoustic here) I would get the bridge adjusted (or sell it). On an electric bridges are adjustable so this is not a problem.

Really...a guitar that can't keep intonation is not worth playing.

no no, that's not what i meant.

you can have the best guitar out there, it still won't be perfectly in tune at every fret, just cuz of the nature of the inst. otherwise, every fret would be jagged and compensated for each note, wouldn't it?

even a buzz feiten (sp check) or a earvana tuned guitar will show a few cents off at certain frets.

[Oldone]

Originally Posted by theblotted

no no, that's not what i meant.

you can have the best guitar out there, it still won't be perfectly in tune at every fret, just cuz of the nature of the inst. otherwise, every fret would be jagged and compensated for each note, wouldn't it?

even a buzz feiten (sp check) or a earvana tuned guitar will show a few cents off at certain frets.

Well the graph may show it being off but most ears won't be bothered by that so I am not sure what the concern is.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by Colorblind

I never realized Solar Sister was played with a capo. One of the best rock songs of the last 20 years.

C