Snare mic that goes..."POP"?

[manthe]

I've been on a quest for s snare sound that pleases me. I'm tired of the SM57, and it isn't *really* the sound I want. I live with it after I add some bottom-snare mic and EQ, but it still is just a compromise. I bought an e609 Silver. I didn't really buy it for snare, but I thought I'd try it. it wasn't what I was looking for. I also have a super-duper-cheap, craptastic snare mic from a kit I bought a looooong time ago....it sux!

I am going to buy an Audix i5 this Saturday. I've heard good things about it. There are a couple more on the 'potentials' list if the i5 doesn't fly.

So, I thought I'd ask here. Do any of you have a snare mic that goes...."POP"?

Here is what I mean...

My SM57 goes - "PUHP"
The e609 Silver goes - "PAP"
My crappy, cheap-o goes - "PLIHNK"

Does the Audix i5 go "POP"?


Thanks!

[djui5]

414

[scrubs]

I have not personally used this mic, but many friends swear by the Beyer M201.

Are you sure your snare is going, "Pop?"

[Vum]

I think you'll find the performance of the drummer and the tuning of the snares to be more to do with the lack of "pop" or "snap".

I'm always hesitant about sticking a condenser on a snare because of cock-eyed drummers - having said that - I've used the Audix on everything on a kit before (including outside the kick shell) and it will probably have more of the character you are seeking as it is more open than the 57.

In my experience certain rooms can be snare killers. I sometimes track rehearsals for my bands and though there is some treatment in the room the snare always sucks. So, there is that.

Try using a snare with a metal shell.

[macr0w]

12x3 piccolo pulled up tight + the i5 and then right.

[picksail]

SM57

[joeshambro]

i'm a really big fan of the beta 57 on top, 414 on bottom.

[flail19]

+1 on the sm57

[contramark]

yeh i think its more to do with the snare drum and not the mic. Try a 57 on a Lugwig Black Beauty or Supraphonic. If your into modern stuff use a distressor to get that thwak. If more vintage go recorderman setup and compress an overhead ribbon mic with a fairchild type compressor.

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by contramark

yeh i think its more to do with the snare drum and not the mic.

it sure is, certain mics, eqs, compressors can help but as long as the sound is there in start with an sm57 or beta57 will work fine

[Musiclab]

It's definetly more about the drum and tuning Then mic choice and placement. Try NOT pointing it down at the head. I mic the snare as if I'm micing the shell just poking over the top of the rim, but back from the snare about an inch and a half. I also mic the side of the shell rather than the bottom, which I find a much more usuable sound.

[warhead]

A condensor would give you a much more detailed sound and faster transient response. It will sound more like the snare drum. In dynamic land though I pick the i5 over everything, it kills the 57 top to bottom.

War

[drBill]

You'll like the i5. I also like the M201. Both great mics for snare.

[uncle duncan]

ATM650 is a new dynamic. It's pretty bright. They also came out with a new condensor, the ATM450. It's a little pencil mic, but it's side address, so you can get it in tight spots.

[Zwinter]

I suggest using a 57 along with a condenser. You put the mics right next to each other so the capsules line up. For the condenser mic I suggest getting a C42 or Gefell M295.

FYI, when I was working in LA I saw a lot of engineers record snare drums using this mic technique, and I am not talking about some low budget record. Stuff you hear everyday on the radio use this style of micing. The only difference is most of those engineers use a KM84 for the condenser mic. From experience I wouldn't substitute a KM184. They don't sound nearly as good as a KM84. In my experience the C42 and M295 are great alternatives for a KM84.

[C/G]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

It's definetly more about the drum and tuning Then mic choice and placement. Try NOT pointing it down at the head. I mic the snare as if I'm micing the shell just poking over the top of the rim, but back from the snare about an inch and a half. I also mic the side of the shell rather than the bottom, which I find a much more usuable sound.

Lou has posted this info many times and I always quote him because this is a great method that I like to use as well. When I started using this method about a year ago, I finally got the sound of the snare that I pictured in my head.

That being said, I like using a Shure KSM 141 condenser, but mic choice will depend upon the snare drum choice as well. Shure Beta 56 or Beyer M201 isn't so bad either.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Colin Gaucher

Lou has posted this info many times and I always quote him because this is a great method that I like to use as well. When I started using this method about a year ago, I finally got the sound of the snare that I pictured in my head.

That being said, I like using a Shure KSM 141 condenser, but mic choice will depend upon the snare drum choice as well. Shure Beta 56 or Beyer M01 isn't so bad either.

Gee thanks Colin, I'm glad someone picked up on this and it works for them. Remoteness aka Steve Remote also use's a variation of this technique, but he likes to use a Neumann TLM 103 as the top mic. I tend to use condensers also, although I had the drummer from TSO here and he hit so hard I had to switch to dynamics just because of the wind blast. When I use dynamics it's usually Beyer 201, not just for the tone but also the rejection is VERY good. Lately for condensers with me it's either a AKG 460 on top or a KM184 and a earthworks SR77 on the shell.

[Surfkat]

I like a dynamic on top (usually a 57) and a condensor on the bottom (usually a sm81). Mix the bottom mic to taste (after flipping the phase). I think you should expand your thinking about the snare sound to include the other mics of the kic. Try putting a LD condensor on the rack tom (I use U87) but place it about 4-6 inches off the tom and facing towards the snare. That mic will pick up the tom in beautiful way and add some bigness and snap to the snare.

[Matt Grondin]

A Josephson e22s will probably do what you're looking for. If you can afford it.

[manthe]

Wow! Lots of good info and advice here. I'm gonna take some time to really digest it tonight. I'm still going to buy the i5 tomorrow and try it. For the price I'm getting it for, I really would be dumb not to! I'll report my findings.

I really feel like I've exhausted my possibilities with the SM57. I have 2 of them and I've put them both ALL OVER both of my snares!

[Fash]

are really cool on drums... i love 451s and 414 on snare. not necesarily a "pop" though. :)

Fash
www.myspace.com/jealousycurve

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

It's definetly more about the drum and tuning Then mic choice and placement. Try NOT pointing it down at the head. I mic the snare as if I'm micing the shell just poking over the top of the rim, but back from the snare about an inch and a half. I also mic the side of the shell rather than the bottom, which I find a much more usuable sound.

So, with a front address cardiod, like a 57 or i5, you would point it 'across' the drum head, instead of looking downward?

And...

Where do you mic the shell? Top, middle or bottom? Do yu point a front-address mic straight at the shell?

[Monsterlab]

sounds like you need to add some room mics. I use a 57 or Beyer m420 on snare top and whatever sd condenser thats within arms reach on the bottom. sounds great. ditto across the head 50% micing the shell. the room mics are where the mojo is,tho.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Vum

I think you'll find the performance of the drummer and the tuning of the snares to be more to do with the lack of "pop" or "snap".

I'm always hesitant about sticking a condenser on a snare because of cock-eyed drummers - having said that - I've used the Audix on everything on a kit before (including outside the kick shell) and it will probably have more of the character you are seeking as it is more open than the 57.

In my experience certain rooms can be snare killers. I sometimes track rehearsals for my bands and though there is some treatment in the room the snare always sucks. So, there is that.

Try using a snare with a metal shell.

Anything particular near a snare that you fin helps? I mean, do you like a kit near a wall or far from walls. If near a wall or 2, how do you like it. In my cramped studio, the kit is in a corner. I have the option of setting it up square with the walls, or diagonally (drummer sits with back to the 90 degree corner. How would you do it?

[manthe]

Originally Posted by warhead

A condensor would give you a much more detailed sound and faster transient response. It will sound more like the snare drum. In dynamic land though I pick the i5 over everything, it kills the 57 top to bottom.

War

Any particular condenser you're fond of? I've been considering the Groove Tubes GT Convertible FET.

[Winey]

Originally Posted by joeshambro

i'm a really big fan of the beta 57 on top, 414 on bottom.

Hey! that's my standard setup too.

[stevep]

57 is all you should need ..... if you cant get a good sound with one there may be other issues

try different snare drums till you find the one you like,

sometimes we go through a few snares to find the one we like for a given song, but most of the time the drummer already knows what will work for the song so its just tuning.

[Matt Grondin]

Although I like the e22s as stated above, if you can't get a good sound with a 57, which has been used on countless great snare recordings, maybe it's time to invest in a different snare instead of mic, and try different heads/tunings. I just bought a DW Edge and it records amazing well. I'd be happy to post a sample that includes the e22s and DW Edge if you're interested. Later.

[dave-G]

Distance can also make a difference.

As others have said, I'd look first at the sound of the snare itself.. but then, I'd move to position with the goal of finding a spot where you can get more distance from the drum without getting too much more leakage than you can handle. The thing about close-miking a drum is that the closer you are the greater the ratio between the levels of the transient and the sustained parts of the sound. As you back off, the two grow closer together proportionally by the inverse square law. One reason dynamic mics are helpful is because they often compress the transients a bit and bring it all together more. If you can move the mic back (higher) off the head even little more, you might be surprised at how it refocuses the sound.

Then of course you're relying on a good drummer, but what else is new?

Other dynamic mics you might try are the Beyer 201, the Sennheiser 431 (vocal dynamic), and the Fostex M77RP printed ribbon (shameless plug, I've got one for sale). Otherwise, for a different, condenser's-eye perspective, a good sleeper of a mic for snares is the Milab DC96B.

-dave