Snare mic that goes..."POP"? - Page 3

naturalstudio · 14th January 2007, 06:48 PM

Pearl 12 x 7 popcorn snare? (only half kidding)

And for a mic, try a 414 on the shell, rather than skin. Works a charm.

taturana · 14th January 2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

That really is awful! So, you get paid less and charged more.....yeah, that sounds pretty fair!

That has to be really frustrating. Especially with the current renaissance in recording in full swing. I'm sure you feel the same passion and drive to record and get the best sounds, yet you're held back because of unfair trade practices/tariffs/etc. Sheesh!

yep.... that's pretty much it... but i am getting pretty good sounds from what i got... and working real hard too... but it's worth it... the gear is just part of it, the ears and the brain are a much bigger part...

and you know interest rates are up to 10% a month, one of the highest in the world... so borrowing from a bank is a terrible idea... still, i love to live here.. go figure...

drmmrboy · 14th January 2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

My SM57 goes - "PUHP"
The e609 Silver goes - "PAP"
My crappy, cheap-o goes - "PLIHNK"
Do any of you have a snare mic that goes...."POP"?

One mans "POP" is another mans "POOP".

I just moved into a new room, and the guys there are using an Altec shalt shaker & a 414 for some stuff. New to me, and quite nice.

I was experimenting/cutting in the new room, and I used a 57. The drums sounded different (amazing) in there, but the 57 still sounds "right" to me. Kind of like how some old records sound "right" to me.

I'm used to the sound, and I like it.

Like others have said, different drums/tuning/heads will make a world of difference. I have a black beauty that I keep the top head cranked down on, and it does that "pop" thing very well.

Jonkan · 14th January 2007, 08:03 PM

I have on numerous occasions thought that the sennheiser e604 clip on mic sounds a bit more "pop" on snare than the sm57.

So maybe you can try one and see.

/J

Benjy King · 14th January 2007, 10:09 PM

I have recently returned to putting a wallet on the snare drum [wallet sitting on head taped to side of snare...when snare is hit, wallet lifts off of drum for a moment, kind of like it's own gate] Also agree with mic'ing the shell. Try turning the snare to where the badge with hole in it is and put the mic an inch from it.

Matt Grondin · 15th January 2007, 12:21 AM

I don't know, there was a rug under the drums in that sample that I posted for the sheer fact of keeping the drums from sliding around. Is that not a good drum sound?

Also, is the wallet thing really necessary with a good drum that doesn't have a ton of overtones? I DO use a moon gel.

Benjy King · 15th January 2007, 12:34 AM

Completely different thing. With the wallet you can have the snare cranked high in pitch with a lot of ring. The wallet is 'sitting' on the drum, not taped to it...just to the side. When the drum is struck it bounces off of the snare and in that moment you get a lot of, well...snare crack!...or 'pop' hopefully. Just something that's been working for me lately.

Recycled_Brains · 15th January 2007, 12:38 AM

Sennheiser 441 is the tits on snare. my fav.

-ryan

Musiclab · 15th January 2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

So, with a front address cardiod, like a 57 or i5, you would point it 'across' the drum head, instead of looking downward?

And...

Where do you mic the shell? Top, middle or bottom? Do yu point a front-address mic straight at the shell?

Somewhere on one of these threads I posted a picture. Pretend you're micing the shell, maybe the mic is an inch or 2 back from the snare. Raise the stand so the top half of the capsule is poking over the drum. The shell mic i usually put near the bottom pointing fairly straight at the shell . The distance away from the drum and where you want to put the shell mic are not set in stone, move it till you get what you're looking for. You will probably have to flip the phase on the shell mic. If you're using decent stuff and you have a good drummer and drum well tuned, you will be a happy camper!

manthe · 15th January 2007, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclab

Somewhere on one of these threads I posted a picture. Pretend you're micing the shell, maybe the mic is an inch or 2 back from the snare. Raise the stand so the top half of the capsule is poking over the drum. The shell mic i usually put near the bottom pointing fairly straight at the shell . The distance away from the drum and where you want to put the shell mic are not set in stone, move it till you get what you're looking for. You will probably have to flip the phase on the shell mic. If you're using decent stuff and you have a good drummer and drum well tuned, you will be a happy camper!

decent stuff - check
good drummer - varies
well tuned - check
happy camper - ...remains to be seen

Thanks for the elaboration. It got copied to my running test plan.

Ugh! Once I started to move my drums around to remove the carpet, I decided that they all needed new heads. So, I went out and bought some very decent Evans EC2 coated heads. I've just finished my small tom and it sounds great. I'm taking the time, while they're apart to polish, wax, tighten hardware, sand the head-seating surface and wax the head-seating surface. This is going to take a while...

warhead · 15th January 2007, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insomnio

Hey War, thanks for the samples. I hated the Audix and loved the SE. However there is something about the 57 and the Eq that I can't explain. You really can shape the SM57 anyway you want. I tried the E604 for some time but I can't say the same about it. Most be cool for toms thou.

War, how does the SE behave at mix and eq time?

I actually don't like the sound of an EQ'd SM57, when you add top end it gets kind of pointy and...well...yech to me. The SE delivers a very full sound, period. It takes EQ about the same as any other condensor really, but doesn't require as much typically.

I've included a clip of the e604 on tom and a clip of the SM57 on tom which may help your curiosity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobby12

Oh yeah, and with respect to Warren, thanks for the clips, but close mic'ed soloed snare tracks do very little for me to be able to tell the sound of a snare or how the mic picking it up is going to work in the whole picture with the rest of the drums. As long as the OH's are good, then I'm usually happy.

Dobby, it's never disrespectful to voice an opposing opinion to me or anyone else on these boards.

If you've heard a snare track before and mixed it...then you can kind of guage what this may sound like opposed to an SM57 (which I provided a clip for also). Same drum, same position, same player (me)...and the reason you hear me play the whole kit and hi hat for a few seconds after the snare hits is so you CAN compare the bleed also! It's very important to me, so I made sure to construct my "I have to play this same &#*^ing lick 50 times as close as I can, now what do I want to be able to hear?" playing with this in mind. Hence, the hi hat beat played at the end of each clip.

War

Musiclab · 16th January 2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

decent stuff - check
good drummer - varies
well tuned - check
happy camper - ...remains to be seen

Thanks for the elaboration. It got copied to my running test plan.

Ugh! Once I started to move my drums around to remove the carpet, I decided that they all needed new heads. So, I went out and bought some very decent Evans EC2 coated heads. I've just finished my small tom and it sounds great. I'm taking the time, while they're apart to polish, wax, tighten hardware, sand the head-seating surface and wax the head-seating surface. This is going to take a while...

OYYYY I hate evans heads!!!! If I want to deaden something out I'll stick some snot [moongel] on them myself. REMO ambassadors!!!!!!

manthe · 16th January 2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclab

OYYYY I hate evans heads!!!! If I want to deaden something out I'll stick some snot [moongel] on them myself. REMO ambassadors!!!!!!

Nah...I really like the EC2s, They have a nice, round, non-aggressive ring to them. Plus, they sound really good without the resonant heads, in case I want that option when recording. I always keep a pack of Moongel and some O'rings by the kit for dead and super-dead sounds.

PS - this week has turned into a week from hell. My kit is still in pieces

I hope to have it put back together by tonight (HOPE), and to get it mic'd up by tomorrow to start experimenting.

insomnio · 16th January 2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warhead

I've included a clip of the e604 on tom and a clip of the SM57 on tom which may help your curiosity.War

Thank you very much War, you rock!
Well, I liked the E604 a lot. Much more leak thou.

Matt Grondin · 17th January 2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclab

OYYYY I hate evans heads!!!! If I want to deaden something out I'll stick some snot [moongel] on them myself. REMO ambassadors!!!!!!

Evans G2's are fantastic on toms. Not so great on everything else. For me, nothing but a Remo Ambassador on the snare and an Aquarian Super Kick III on the kick sounds better.

Musiclab · 18th January 2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobby12

Evans G2's are fantastic on toms. Not so great on everything else. For me, nothing but a Remo Ambassador on the snare and an Aquarian Super Kick III on the kick sounds better.

There's a great drummer named Richard Crooks who records here with a 60's Gretsch kit, he uses the Aquarian head for the kick swears by them and he knows how to get a great sound from them. I'm anti pre deadened heads. Remo ambassadors with some snot always works

Cymbals · 18th January 2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

Nah...I really like the EC2s, They have a nice, round, non-aggressive ring to them. Plus, they sound really good without the resonant heads, in case I want that option when recording. I always keep a pack of Moongel and some O'rings by the kit for dead and super-dead sounds.

PS - this week has turned into a week from hell. My kit is still in pieces

I hope to have it put back together by tonight (HOPE), and to get it mic'd up by tomorrow to start experimenting.

Too bad ya didn't live closer - that would be a project I would enjoy!

manthe · 18th January 2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymbals

Too bad ya didn't live closer - that would be a project I would enjoy!

That would have been awesome! Where are you located?

I *just* finished getting them back together last night and mic'd up. I've been experimenting with placement. I've got something that I think I'm pretty happy with right now (there is ALWAYS room for improvement). I'm going to try to do a little processing on it and post the results to see what people think (if anyone is interested).

As long as people realize that I DO NOT consider myself a drummer. I only play on my own stuff (when I can't find any one else) and I have them in my little studio for people to use when I track them.

Cymbals · 19th January 2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

That would have been awesome! Where are you located?

Especially because I am a drummer :) Metro-Detroit area.

Try the suggestion out of the mic just peeking over the edge of the rim, height-wise. I think Fletcher originally set me hip to that.

Cymbals · 19th January 2007, 12:26 AM

I feel guilty - I should carve out some time and totally strip all the hardware down to the shell and do the same thing (if I had that much!). Mine are poly-urethaned, so I am not bothering with waxing the suckers, but yeah, some tlc wouldn't hurt my custom tubs.

manthe · 19th January 2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymbals

I feel guilty - I should carve out some time and totally strip all the hardware down to the shell and do the same thing (if I had that much!). Mine are poly-urethaned, so I am not bothering with waxing the suckers, but yeah, some tlc wouldn't hurt my custom tubs.

It was a lot of extra work, but well worth it. It was definitely time to tighten down the lugs and other hardware and give them a good cleaning and waxing. It is a fairly decent, Pearl Export kit. So, it is definitely worth my time and effort to keep them in shape! I have all, high-quality Zildjian cymbals as well. I should probably clean and polish them while I'm still in the mood!

Cymbals · 19th January 2007, 12:44 AM

Ohhh man, you're gonna start up a clean vs non clean cymbal argument.....from me! jk. If you've got K's, which is a darker sounding cymbal anyway, you might not want to polish them - it can make the sound brighter.

You're totally hard core - I hope you enjoy the sound change - just the carpet alone will make huge differences. You might need a piece of carpet with 2x-side tape for bass drum creep. (Boom boom) there it goes! (pull back pull back) boom boom (pull back again). <g>

manthe · 19th January 2007, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymbals

Ohhh man, you're gonna start up a clean vs non clean cymbal argument.....from me! jk. If you've got K's, which is a darker sounding cymbal anyway, you might not want to polish them - it can make the sound brighter.

You're totally hard core - I hope you enjoy the sound change - just the carpet alone will make huge differences. You might need a piece of carpet with 2x-side tape for bass drum creep. (Boom boom) there it goes! (pull back pull back) boom boom (pull back again). <g>

Great! Thanks a lot for inserting doubt (about the cymbals)

JK, but you do bring up a good point that had not really considered. For instance, my Zildjian 20" Ping ride. It sort-of has a mixture of dark and crisp. The attack is crisp, but the swell is pretty dark....hmmm. I gotta think this one through. You'll probably think this is stupid, but I had a song once where the swell from that ride was ruining it and driving me NUTS. I actually slapped a Moongel on the cymbal and...bingo...perfect! Since then, I've been known to stick snot on that cymbal from time to time. I wonder what polishing would do?

Cymbals · 19th January 2007, 01:10 AM

e

- one way to find out! <g>

I sleep under a shadow of doubt.

Jk, here's a catch phrase for ya - the less grime in the grooves, the more sing and ring!

Six Silver · 19th January 2007, 01:18 AM

Check out the list of mics on the Drums on Demand site, this should bring you right to it, should be on the right: http://www.drumsondemand.com/volume9.html
Listen to the previews and see if there's anything you like there and I think Guy would be happy to help.
Takes more than the usual two it seems, I love Guy's drumsound anyway, he really manages to get that ommph I'm looking for. Pop doesn't mean a lot to me? Think his Geffel might have a lot to do with it and as for all these drums, like the guy said, tuning is numero UNO.

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14th January 2007, 06:48 PM	#61
naturalstudio Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: scotland Posts: 275	Pearl 12 x 7 popcorn snare? (only half kidding) And for a mic, try a 414 on the shell, rather than skin. Works a charm. __________________ douglas whates (naturalstudio creator and curator) http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk http://www.douglaswhates.com

14th January 2007, 10:09 PM	#65
Benjy King Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 358	Snare pop I have recently returned to putting a wallet on the snare drum [wallet sitting on head taped to side of snare...when snare is hit, wallet lifts off of drum for a moment, kind of like it's own gate] Also agree with mic'ing the shell. Try turning the snare to where the badge with hole in it is and put the mic an inch from it. __________________ Benjy www.benjyking.com www.myspace.com/benjyking

15th January 2007, 12:21 AM	#66
Matt Grondin Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Jacksonville Beach, FL Posts: 1,108	I don't know, there was a rug under the drums in that sample that I posted for the sheer fact of keeping the drums from sliding around. Is that not a good drum sound? Also, is the wallet thing really necessary with a good drum that doesn't have a ton of overtones? I DO use a moon gel. __________________ Matt Grondin http://www.myspace.com/incamaya http://www.inca-maya.com

15th January 2007, 12:34 AM	#67
Benjy King Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 358	Moon gel.....Wallet Completely different thing. With the wallet you can have the snare cranked high in pitch with a lot of ring. The wallet is 'sitting' on the drum, not taped to it...just to the side. When the drum is struck it bounces off of the snare and in that moment you get a lot of, well...snare crack!...or 'pop' hopefully. Just something that's been working for me lately. __________________ Benjy www.benjyking.com www.myspace.com/benjyking

14th January 2007, 08:03 PM	#64
Jonkan Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Malmö, Sweden Posts: 180	I have on numerous occasions thought that the sennheiser e604 clip on mic sounds a bit more "pop" on snare than the sm57. So maybe you can try one and see. /J

15th January 2007, 12:38 AM	#68
Recycled_Brains Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 248	Sennheiser 441 is the tits on snare. my fav. -ryan __________________ "Every step, a ****ing adventure." - Al Swearengen http://www.myspace.com/bubba_joan

19th January 2007, 12:26 AM	#80
Cymbals Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 48	Guilt!! I feel guilty - I should carve out some time and totally strip all the hardware down to the shell and do the same thing (if I had that much!). Mine are poly-urethaned, so I am not bothering with waxing the suckers, but yeah, some tlc wouldn't hurt my custom tubs.

19th January 2007, 12:44 AM	#82
Cymbals Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 48	Ohhh man, you're gonna start up a clean vs non clean cymbal argument.....from me! jk. If you've got K's, which is a darker sounding cymbal anyway, you might not want to polish them - it can make the sound brighter. You're totally hard core - I hope you enjoy the sound change - just the carpet alone will make huge differences. You might need a piece of carpet with 2x-side tape for bass drum creep. (Boom boom) there it goes! (pull back pull back) boom boom (pull back again). <g>

19th January 2007, 01:10 AM	#84
Cymbals Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 48	e - one way to find out! <g> I sleep under a shadow of doubt. Jk, here's a catch phrase for ya - the less grime in the grooves, the more sing and ring!

19th January 2007, 01:18 AM	#85
Six Silver Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 24	Pop Check out the list of mics on the Drums on Demand site, this should bring you right to it, should be on the right: http://www.drumsondemand.com/volume9.html Listen to the previews and see if there's anything you like there and I think Guy would be happy to help. Takes more than the usual two it seems, I love Guy's drumsound anyway, he really manages to get that ommph I'm looking for. Pop doesn't mean a lot to me? Think his Geffel might have a lot to do with it and as for all these drums, like the guy said, tuning is numero UNO.