Cubase/Nuendo Gurus: Seeking Advice on Routing Configuration for Mixing Project

[Synth80s]

I’m looking for some advice for setting up an improved Cubase routing configuration for mixing. Here’s the background (please bear with me):

I recently recorded a live band using Cubase SX3 and I’m starting to mix the tracks. Each song (i.e. Cubase project) consists of 10 Cubase audio tracks (5 drum mics, 2 guitar cabinet mics, guitar DI, bass DI & vocal).

Now comes the hard part: we recorded between 5-10 takes of each song. While I took some track notes, I’m looking for a fast, effective way to group the audio tracks so I can quickly switch between entire takes while routing the mix through the same plug-ins for consistency. I want to be able to compare takes and, when necessary, move/comp/edit parts of each take together. I’ve tried two approaches, but each leaves something to be desired:

Mixing Approach #1 (Simple But Slow)

A – Setup all the Cubase instrument audio tracks to use lanes so I can display all the takes within each audio track (10 audio tracks total)
B – Use insert plug-ins on each Cubase audio track (and some additional send/return FX tracks) so each take can be evaluated with the same FX applied

Pros to this approach

1) It simply works without having to radically revamp each Cubase project from the tracking setup. I can simply re-save the project with a new name, add some insert plug-ins and FX tracks and get to mixing quickly
2) I can freeze the instrument audio tracks to free up more CPU resources for plug-ins

Cons to this approach

1) When I want to switch between takes of the song, I have to manually go into each of the 10 Cubase audio tracks and mute/unmute the right take (audio event). While this works, it takes far too much time which makes it very difficult to compare takes against each other or comp them together.

Mixing Approach #2 (Complex Overkill?)

A – Create top level Cubase folder tracks for each take
B – Within each folder track, create separate audio tracks for each instrument and move the individual takes (audio events) for each instrument into the audio tracks (i.e. no need to use lanes as there is only one audio event per Cubase audio track)
C – Create group tracks for each instrument and route all the instruments from each take to the group tracks (i.e. all bass tracks route to the bass group, etc.)
D – Use insert plug-ins on each group track (and some additional send/return FX tracks) so each take can be evaluated with the same FX applied

Pros to this approach

1) I can easily switch between takes by muting/unmuting the top level folder tracks (which mutes/unmutes all the audio tracks contained in that folder)

Cons to this approach

1) I end up with 50-100 total audio tracks within each project (5-10 takes x 10 audio tracks) which slows Cubase down even when most of the tracks are muted
2) Taking each tracking project, adding and naming all the audio tracks and moving all the audio events around takes a *long* time
3) Freeze doesn’t work on group tracks, so I have less CPU to play with while I mix

So there you have it. I feel like I’m missing something. I’m hoping there’s some Cubase feature I’m overlooking that will allow me to mute/unmute audio events in groups no matter where they are in the project (kind of like mute/solo groups on an analog mixer). If I could do this in coordination with approach #1, I’d be set. I was hoping Cubase 4 would offer freeze for group tracks, but they haven’t added that feature yet.

Ok, Cubase/Nuendo experts – let the ideas flow. I’m willing to try anything at this point to obtain a more efficient mixing setup.

Thanks in advance,
Synth80s

[tamasdragon]

Maybe I missed the point, but setup a playorder track. This way you can easily jump between takes back and forth.

Tamas Dragon

[SeanG]

Synth 80,

This post is probably better in the Music Computer forum.

However this should help,

In project window, with object select tool, multi-select (use shift) all tracks you want to audition/edit.

Pull down menu: Audio
Select: events to part (this merges all multiple takes on same track).


In project window, multi-select all tracks you want to audition/edit

Double click on wave or waves you wish to audition/edit,
This should open all files with all takes in a sample editing window, where you can select multiple files with takes, and mute them using the mute tool, or editing can be done on groups of tracks or individual track with multiple takes and/or punches.

You can also group channels on mixer for muting by multi-select,
Control G to group
Control U to ungroup.
However it does not just group mute, it groups all fader properties, still pretty easy to do and undo so you can use for just mute, I use this function for many things.

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

Maybe I missed the point, but setup a playorder track. This way you can easily jump between takes back and forth.

Tamas Dragon

Hi Tamas,

First, thanks for the idea. Here's what I tried:

1) Added a Play Order Track
2) Created a 6 minute zone for each of the 6 takes in my test mix and lined them up along the Play Order Track (each take is 5:20-5:40 long)
3) On all 10 audio tracks, I moved the individual audio events from within the "stacked lanes" and arranged them linearly on each audio track. Part A starts at 00:00:01, Part B starts at 00:06:01, etc.
4) Enabled the Play Order track and used it to move to the start points of each of the 6 takes.

Hopefully this is the configuration you were suggesting. This configuration seemed to work well. I found only two issues:

1) The project for a 5 1/2 minute song is now 36 minutes long (!) which makes it a bit unwieldy, but manageable
2) A weird issue: when the Play Order Track is enabled and I'm playing one of the takes, any enabling/disabling of a plug in causes the audio playback to stop (even though the transport still shows play). If I hit stop and play again, the audio starts playing the take over from the beginning. I'm used to Cubase having a ~1 second dropout when I enable/disable a plug-in during playback, but the audio always keeps going after the brief delay. This one is stumping me. Any ideas?

Thanks again,
Synth80s

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by SeanG

Synth 80,

This post is probably better in the Music Computer forum.

However this should help,

In project window, with object select tool, multi-select (use shift) all tracks you want to audition/edit.

Pull down menu: Audio
Select: events to part (this merges all multiple takes on same track).


In project window, multi-select all tracks you want to audition/edit

Double click on wave or waves you wish to audition/edit,
This should open all files with all takes in a sample editing window, where you can select multiple files with takes, and mute them using the mute tool, or editing can be done on groups of tracks or individual track with multiple takes and/or punches.

You can also group channels on mixer for muting by multi-select,
Control G to group
Control U to ungroup.
However it does not just group mute, it groups all fader properties, still pretty easy to do and undo so you can use for just mute, I use this function for many things.

Hi Sean. Thanks to you for replying as well. I learned a few good tips here!

I tried this configuration, but found that I still had to go through the hassle of manually enabling/disabling the individual takes in each audio track when I want to swap between takes (even when events have been merged to a part). It is handy to open all the merged parts at once, but the click, click, click to mute/unmute parts gets old fast! Did I miss something?

I hope Steinberg strongly considers adding freeze to group tracks in Cubase SX 5!

Thanks again,
Synth80s

[Synth80s]

Wait -- I just thought of something: when I merged the audio events to a single part, I was merging all the takes of each individual instrument to a part (i.e. all 6 takes of bass). I'm going to try selecting all the instrument events which make up a full take of the song (Take 1 Bass + Take 1 Vocals + etc...) and see if I can merge them to a single part across tracks.

Perhaps this is what you meant?

-Synth80s

[SeanG]

Originally Posted by Synth80s

Wait -- I just thought of something: when I merged the audio events to a single part, I was merging all the takes of each individual instrument to a part (i.e. all 6 takes of bass). I'm going to try selecting all the instrument events which make up a full take of the song (Take 1 Bass + Take 1 Vocals + etc...) and see if I can merge them to a single part across tracks.

Perhaps this is what you meant?

-Synth80s

It won't merge them to single part, but now that they are merged individually, you can multi-select them in project window, then double click on one and they should all open in the same audio part editor.

Then in the in audio part editor multi-select all of the takes you want to mute (use control key as to not select all) then use mute tool.

A few things though, to multi-select in the project window use shift key, as it will allow you to select multiple tracks (only the ones you click on).

However in the audio part editor you will need to use the control key to multi-select parts (only the ones you click on).

This is also how you would do the same edit across multiple tracks.