How to layer guitars

[gsilbers]

all the ones you mentioned sound good. i would also get the signal straight without dist and record it clean in one channel and dist in the other,. that way u can use ampfarm or guitar rig if u need it. it helped me in a mix cause at the end i kept the clean file with guitar rig and muted the distorted one.

but too much layering will clutter up your mix.

[kevin nowhow]

Everything gsilbers said is absolutely correct & practical so if i were you i would follow this advice.As for 'how many tracks' bands usually double-track(ie one panned left-one panned right) or quadra-track(2 guitars on each channel).You'll just have to make sure you have a solid performance and/or edit the shit out of them so they sound like a huge wall of sound.

[BeerHunter]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

all the ones you mentioned sound good. i would also get the signal straight without dist and record it clean in one channel and dist in the other,. that way u can use ampfarm or guitar rig if u need it. it helped me in a mix cause at the end i kept the clean file with guitar rig and muted the distorted one.

but too much layering will clutter up your mix.

I always record a clean DI signal in case its needed for whatever reason later on down the road.

[Ngr]

I used to layer guitar tracks. Not anymore.
I find it easier to manage and more pleasant to listen to.

[psykostx]

Use wide-Q bandpass filters on each guitar. This will keep the bass and treble from adding up excessively. Use a different center frequency on each guitar, and different bandwidth (Q) settings as well, depending on the guitars position front to back in the soundstage. You could put a nice healthy low-mid cut on the buss as well, narrow or wide Q, depending on how meaty or translucent you want them to be (to let other elements through).

BTW ... It would be REALLY cool if a manufacturer would make a 4 or 8 channel rackmount unit of just 5-position highpass/lowpass switches...and maybe a 5-position midrange shape like the Avalon U-5 has. Maybe transformer balanced i/o?

[axlepaas]

REALLY depends on what kind of music you're going for...but here's a few tips..

-make sure your doubles are SPOT on. retake, retake, retake til it sounds like u can only hear the one guitar....THATS a double

-try doubling with a baritone

-when doubling an identical part, use the same amp sound, just switch the guitar(sometimes i'll play a les paul part, then double the same thing with an SG...)

- acoustic can be a great doubler! Nashville tunned acoustic is rad too!

- try different tunings and voicings for the doubled parts, if an electrick part is in open G, try the double doing Bar Chords....

double with FOOTBALLS or ONE Note Stuff...

- if u have alot of power chords in the track, try some high string parts to fill out the higher end of the sonic spectrum......

- tapping solos!!!(jokes)

there's an endless amount of tips, you guys all had good ones, hope these help

[Ward Pike]

Having the doubled parts played precisely the same is crucial to getting that big layered sound. Use a variety of guitars and amps as well.

According to the late Steve Clarke, when recording "Pyromania" meticulously recorded each guitar part (except for solos) with a telecaster, an SG and a Les Paul. They had 3 tracks per side for principal guitar parts and mixed/layered accordingly.

I have gotten great results out of using a variety of amps as well, with varying degrees of overdrive. Different amps can also be recorded at the same time, just mult out to them and record on separate tracks...

Best of luck, as always great suggestions around here!

[sanskara]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

Having the doubled parts played precisely the same is crucial to getting that big layered sound. Use a variety of guitars and amps as well.

According to the late Steve Clarke, when recording "Pyromania" meticulously recorded each guitar part (except for solos) with a telecaster, an SG and a Les Paul. They had 3 tracks per side for principal guitar parts and mixed/layered accordingly.

I have gotten great results out of using a variety of amps as well, with varying degrees of overdrive. Different amps can also be recorded at the same time, just mult out to them and record on separate tracks...

Best of luck, as always great suggestions around here!

From an early 80's interview with John Stix, I seem to recall Clark saying that Mutt Lange would give each note in a chord its own track, and then would layer them to create guitar chords that can't be played on a single guitar (opening riffs to "Photograph," "Rock of Ages," etc.)

You can hear some of that on the "Hysteria" album as well. The intro to "Armageddon It," for example, uses this tracking technique--although the riff is just perfect 4ths layered.

[Slaytex]

If you really want to walk down this path, an MW1 studio tool is an absolute must! I can't tell you how many times an arrogant guitar player comes to my place and insists on using a certain amp when I know it will not fit the sound of the track. With the MW1 I'm able to capture a crystal clear DI track as well as 3-4 amp tracks without the guitar player knowing. When he bitches later on that the amp he played through doesn't work, I just re-amp the track with another amp and presto chango!
You can accomplish this task with other gear but it's nice to have it all in one box.

[Kenny M]

Try to use a different guitar and possibly amp for every individual track. Your song will mix itself.

Also, the most ballsy sounds have much less distortion than one might think, especially a player who mostly plays live. Too much distortion gets small real fast and has to be balanced and blended with clean layers to make it have any slam you in the chest tone.

While I see a great safety net created by tracking a clean direct sound in case you want to re-amp later, I've only done this once in over 20 years that I thought was any better than re-cutting the track. I say dial it in how you want it to sound, fx pedals and all and commit! If it's not working later then re-cut it. Maybe because I cut almost all my own guitar tracks this is an easier scenario for me, but the sound I'm using is a very determining factor in how I've performed a part. Outside of dialing in a little more or less distortion after the fact I can't really see me playing the part the same with a different sound. I like the commit button and try to use it at all times

[Aaron Miller]

I see a lot of comments reflecting current trends in guitar layering--many tracks, all perfectly aligned, hard panning, playing lots of nearly identical parts, etc. All good advice, especially if you want a modern sound.

I'd also take a listen to some "older" music and/or songs that utilize other types of layering and listen for some alternative approaches. Not that you have to use them, but there's some cool stuff going on there too.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

I see a lot of comments reflecting current trends in guitar layering--many tracks, all perfectly aligned, hard panning, playing lots of nearly identical parts, etc. All good advice, especially if you want a modern sound.

I'd also take a listen to some "older" music and/or songs that utilize other types of layering and listen for some alternative approaches. Not that you have to use them, but there's some cool stuff going on there too.

The older approaches can often yield a wider result. Two unique guitar parts
can offer provide more separation but it all depends. I think metal is more the
double quadruple the same part philosophy. It still works

[ButchP]

I just throw them on the floor.. solid bodys on the bottom hollow bodys on the top.

[MarkRB]

I'll kindof agree with the consensus. Layering guitars very much depends on tailoring the sound to the "role" it has to play in a mix.

Layering the same sound can work if you just want to thicken the tone, but it gets way more interesting if you pick specific sounds/guitars/amps/pickups etc.. to add certain elements.

[Traintrack]

If your looking for that plastic "Modern Sound" then follow the suggestions above. You know; music with no human touch?

It really is very, very, easy to double rock guitars. This "MUST BE EXACT", is good for people who iron their underpants.

Play the rhythm track twice. If it can be played better, then do it again. Use the same setup with each guitar. If you have an Amp, use it. When you mix, you then EQ each track to achieve a sound that is right for the song.

It really is nothing that is all that hard to do. Now doubling a vocal? That is talent.

[Slikjmuzik]

I haven't really been a huge fan of layering. I continue to try without making the track less clear and never get it. For me, a good guitar with good cabling into my Mesa with an R92 in front of my Avatar 2x12 into a Burl B1 and Lynx Converters = huge guitar sounds!! If anyone wants to hear a snippet of the current project I'm working on, I'll be happy to post what this sounds like.

[axlepaas]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

I'd also take a listen to some "older" music and/or songs that utilize other types of layering and listen for some alternative approaches. Not that you have to use them, but there's some cool stuff going on there too.

I meant to mention this in my post, listen to Appetite for Destruction, great example of two guitars sounding ridiko heavy while filling the sonic spectrum....

Theres lots of older rock records that have great examples of layering. Good call.

[adrummingdude]

Originally Posted by Kenny M

While I see a great safety net created by tracking a clean direct sound in case you want to re-amp later, I've only done this once in over 20 years that I thought was any better than re-cutting the track. I say dial it in how you want it to sound, fx pedals and all and commit! If it's not working later then re-cut it. Maybe because I cut almost all my own guitar tracks this is an easier scenario for me, but the sound I'm using is a very determining factor in how I've performed a part. Outside of dialing in a little more or less distortion after the fact I can't really see me playing the part the same with a different sound. I like the commit button and try to use it at all times

I'm with ya Kenny.

Plugin amp models are indeed impressive tools, but I have never had the urge to record guitars clean DI and then use a modeler (or even reamping for that matter) to create the finished guitar tone. I've used modelers (waves) before for effect purposes, not JUST on guitars but other things as well, but yeah, run a nice guitar into a nice amp, in a nice room with a nice signal chain behind it (Royers and 57's seem to play nicely with each other). Take the time to dial in the sound you want, and thats it. Maybe some light EQ and compression while mixing and youre done.

Its actually kind of scares me that the "DI into a line 6" approach has become so accepted these days. Do it the real way or don't do it at all, the difference is vast.

[ButchP]

if you want the character of the gtr (old school) doubling with different gtrs's might not be the way to go.it creates a new gtr or a mush of the indistinguishable.
I do like using the same guitar and amp tone and doubling that though.There's a lot of crayons in a box but it doesn't mean you have to use them all in one fridge pic.

[the heretic]

if you use the same amp, same guitar, and don't move the mic at all, you will end up with mushy out of phase guitars. You easily hear this by recording it twice and panning one left and one right. if you are exactly in time, and nothing moved, it will be mono. No one plays that perfectly, so more likely it will be a tiny bit out, but any parts that are actually exactly played in time with each other will fly from being panned left-right to mono and back. its really weird sounding if you haven't heard it before. if these are both on the same side, they will go in and out of phase and sound terrible.

even different guitars, can sometimes sound way too close and cause problems. i recently recorded a guy who loved b.c. rich guitars, the result of course being that he had a bunch of guitars that sounded very similar. Just moving the mic back a few inches will change the phase relationship and provide enough of a difference.

sometimes it does just sound better with one guitar per side.

I've had good success with 2 amps but only one performance. or taking the DI and using an amp sim and blending. usually i'll do that if the gtr players aren't really awesome and i know that double tracking is just going to be a mess.

my 2c

[PdotDdot]

I use the same amp and same mic setup. I play the part on a Les Paul with appropriate tone/distortion with the pickup selector switch in the down position. I play it again on the Les Paul with switch in the middle position. I play it a third time on same Les Paul with the switch in the up position.

I then use a Telecaster with a clean tone and do the same thing - once for each pickup selection position.

Now I have 6 tracks of the same part. I mix and match and pan until I get the right sound for the mix.

By doing distortion and clean, I get full control of high and low and mids. Most often I do not eq but if the need arises, I can eq to taste as well.

Sometimes I run thru an H3000 and have the left channel tuned 12 cents down and the right channel tuned 12 cents up. Maybe even delay one channel a tad.

I got this technique from an interview with Elliot Easton of the Cars years ago. This is how he used to do it. He uses the Tele for the high end and for cleaner sound and the humbuckers for the meat lows and mids.

As always, it depends on the tune, arrangement, and mix but doing it this way allows a lot of flexibility. And sometimes I end up not using all the tracks. Just depends on what my ears are telling me.

[myles]

And there's always...

Elec Gtr - Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell

Just make sure you have a couple of days free and plenty of food in the fridge (and that's just for reading!)...

[Fredrik I]

Many good techniques posted above.

If you ever use 2 microphones on one amp its extremely important to make sure that the microphones have the exact same phase. This is really easy to achieve. Just put on your headset and place the first mic where you like the sound of it. Then you do the same thing with the other one before you listen to both mics at the same time with the phase flipped on one of the chanels. Move one of them in and/or out until you don´t hear any guitar in your headsett. Then you just switch the phase button again and your ready to record your amazing guitar part

Another tip for getting rid of high pitched ringing/resonant tones(which my Tele tends to) is to place one layer of thin toilet paper on the grill of your cabinet right in front of where you are aiming your mic.

Good luck with your guitar recordings!

[ST.]

I'm interested in this topic as well, but not so much for heavy distorted guitar layering.

I'm wondering about how Steely Dan got their layered sound on songs like Aja (which contains a lot of solo lines in harmony). I like the idea of having the guitars take part in what is almost like a brass section... but I can never get the guitar sounds to sound as clean. I like how you can hear each of the individual notes of the guitar chords on Aja (the title track) even though they have such a unified and even sound. Does anyone have any insight on this kind of guitar layering?

[parlopower]

If you are into low tunings and heavy riffs: One of the best guitar sounds in a modern production for my taste is the "Dear Agony" album from Breaking Benjamin. Even though it sounds quite huge and heavy, they did not use many tracks for the guitars. Two baritones with not too much distortion, one panned left and one right, and maybe one or two more lead guitars for melodies etc. The huge sound comes a lot from tight playing and blending it right with the bass guitar, I guess the rest is "simply" excellent tracking in a good sounding room.

[BadMojo]

Whatever sounds best. If you can't get 2 guitar tracks panned hard left and right to sound decent there's no need to layer more guitars. I track young rock bands all the time. And just because their favourite bands tracked 100 layers of guitars on the latest record they just have to do it too. If the guitar player can't play solid and tight I tell them straight away there's no need to create this wall of guitars.

[msquared]

While this thread seems very oriented toward the modern rock rock approach to layering, the Standing in the Shadows of Motown documentary had a section which covers this. Given how much instrumental layering they did on those albums it's interesting to see how they made it work (which was with good arrangements).

[Drooh]

I found this a little bit tricky at the start, but once you get the hang of it, it's second nature.

I start off by recording a DI track (for later re-amping) while recording the main amp.

Generally depending on the band, I like to have one guitar tone really grungy and dirty, while the other guitar tone being high in definition and screaming almost. When panned gives a wall of sound.

Creating multiple mixes of this like for example four different tracks with a little difference between them (like pickup, guitar tone, amp) and then the general EQ.

For example if you had four guitar tracks, 1 and 2 being dirty grungy, then 3 and 4 being of high tone and definition. So that the panning on the guitars for the left channel would be 1 + 3 and then 2 + 4 on the right.

I prefer to have nothing completely panned hard left or hard right in guitars, so it kinda of ties the tones together.

Hope this helps.

Andy.

[Dimarino]

am I the only one always reamping everything?

When i produce songs I put up a 57 on the cone and the player are almost all the time happy with that.
During mixing i´ll take one or two days reamping with all different speakers, mics, heads or whatever, sometimes even plugins on the DI channel if needed, to make it sound the way I want.
I really dont feel like running between CR and the live room 20 times before getting it right while the band is in there waiting for me. It´s more necessary to keep the session going while they´re hot.

As for the topic, different guitars and/or speakrs really spice up the mix when double/quadruple tracks.