Questions About Signal Flow In Major Studios

[I.T.]

Most of my recording experience has involved a Digidesign 002 with external preamps feeding the line ins. Of course, the 002 is greatly condensed in comparison to the console-based environment of a major studio. As I begin to explore outboard comps and EQ units, I would like to gain an understanding of how signals are routed around the average big studio. Let’s say we have a 24 track Studer and an API console. As I currently understand it, this would be the primary audio path through the console:

24 Input Channels. Each channel has:
Mic > Mic Pre (312) > FX insert (1176 would go here) > EQ (550) > Channel Fader > Line out to recorder.

24 track Recorder (Studer 827)

24 Playback Channels. Each channel has:
Line in from recorder > FX insert > Pan > EQ (550) > Channel Fader > Summing > Master Faders > Speakers.

So our console would need to have at least 48 channels? Are the input and output channels typically equipped with identical controls/features?

Do you see any flaws with this idea? Am I missing any other basic elements? Is the ordering correct? Any confirmation, comments, and/or additional ideas would be very helpful.

[John Suitcase]

No sure about that console, but many consoles have a low-feq cut before the inserts. Also, the pan is after the eq and fader...

[I.T.]

Excellent info. Thanks! Would there typically be a pan control on the input channels? If so, I assume it would not serve much purpose, as our inputs are mono...

[Stizz]

perhaps I am off base here - but in this example, you would usually use 24 channels of an inline console, and can use the onboard EQ on either the input or the monitor return. Is that the question? That's why each channel has a small fader and a large fader.

[Stizz]

Originally Posted by I.T.

Excellent info. Thanks! Would there typically be a pan control on the input channels? If so, I assume it would not serve much purpose, as our inputs are mono...

the pan control can be engaged to pan between odd/even busses to tape.

[stevep]

Your describing a split console design, this is the way i like to work

In my studio i set it up like this

The mics all show up on there own faders and the 48 busses all are normaled to the tape/Ptools inputs. Then the tape /Ptools outs are normaled to there own faders

Most consoles with a well designed patch bay will let you set it up to how you like to work. either split or inline

[dbbubba]

On most pro conmsoles you have:

MIC INPUT > MIC PRE > EQ > INSERT > FADER > MIX MODULE or BUSS OUT MATRIX
* At this point there can either be SUB GROUP BUSSES or an OUTPUT BUSS MATRIX (switches or a latch point system)
At this point it goes into the MULTITRACK
The return during tracking is:
MULTITRACK > LINE IN > MIX MODULE which feeds the 2 MIX
The MIX MODULE can also be a seperate mixer like a split console.
In an inline consle there is a MIX section or module.
The AUXES can usually be switched to either path in higher quality consoles.
Generally the AUXES follow the MIX MODULE, but on split consoles the AUXES are available on te monitor channels AND the input channels.

In Mixdown the signal path is:
MULTITRACK > LINE IN > EQ > INSERT POINT > MIX MODULE (plus AUXES) > 2 MIX (quad or what-ever mix configuration is used)

There are the big channel faders and the smaller faders.
Most larger consoles allow a FLIP function where the big faders can be attenuating the record path and the small fader controlling the monitor mix.
It is common to have the big faders attenuate the mix in both monitoring and mix down.
The small faders would control the level to tape during tracking in "normal" use.

This whole scheme is not followed exactly in all consoles, but it is a common signal flow.
Larger consoles pretty much follow the inline path described, but it can vary in the mis stage.

There is also the issue of GROUP VCAs in larger consoles.

That Little Adam, is another story.

[danasti]

Originally Posted by I.T.

Do you see any flaws with this idea? Am I missing any other basic elements?

Patchbay most definetely is missing. It's why we don't have/need 5680 channel consoles.

[Jim Kerr]

I heard that it is very common that the BIG 96 plus channel console's get loaded with ALOT of multiple returns and are not just used for tracking a 72 piece orcherstra. For example vox return (1176 x 4 ch 64,65,66,67 w/ different settings - la2a x2 ch 68,69 - PCM 90 x2 ch 70,71 - Pultec x2 ch 72,73...and so on) just to throw things in the mix quickly, to compare and to not have to patch!! at least constantly. I never thought it was so..frank. $$$$ = privlages alot of the time.

[John Suitcase]

I posted this question in another forum, but can anybody post a list (or partial list) of the consoles they've worked on, and whether the insert point was before or after the EQ.
I've worked mostly on small mixers, it's been a long time since I've sat in front of what I would call a console.

On my little Soundcraft, the insert was before the eq, but on my current Yamaha, it's after the eq. I'm curious as to how this effects the usage of outboard eq, compression, etc.

In Cubase SX, the insert is before the EQ, from what I understand...

[gsilbers]

big studioa have an ssl or neve. the ssl is an inline console. which means that input and return are in the same module or strip. there will be 2 faders , one for each path and in the master section u can change which is which depending on your needs. as you can have a setting for mix and record or both.

the insert in the patch bay will reflect those settings. so you will have the mic into the console hwere u choose to use an outboard pre or the ssl pre. for the outboard pre you only patch in and out you fav pre.
then you choose if u want to record to tape the EQ and compressor or not.
and the gain to tape will be one of the faders in that channel strip.

then for tape return you can patch so it goes to another channel or the same. you can only use the EQ and compresor in one path but not both. this is usefull if u want to eq or compress the monitor path and send it to headfones cause your singer was told that if the kick drum was compress she could sing better or whatever.

usually u are able to change if the compressor comes before or after the EQ on each channel strip.

if u are only mixing you can use one fader for volume and the other as a send.
again , with patching.

the patch bay is one of the most important parts. not only because of routing but also it is the center or main ground. so compressors and other outboard gear will not have that 3 ground pin on the AC outlet but instead will be routed to the patch bay, this is becuase is if something goes wrong itll go to the poatch bay which is grounded to the ground or the easiest and fastest way to the ground instead of you.

of course u can risk it and not routed this way but usually big studios are set this way.

[stevep]

John Suitcase; .I posted this question in another forum, but can anybody post a list (or partial list) of the consoles they've worked on, and whether the insert point was before or after the EQ.

On my APC1000 the inserts are switchable and can be either pre EQ or post EQ

i can use it as an in line desk to ..... but its not the way i like to work, and with 80 channels i never run out of faders when tracking