Oversampling meter plugin? (RTAS or VST)

[AlexLakis]

I know this has been covered before, but I did a search and couldn't find anything...

I know Trillium Labs makes a meter that simulates the reconstruction of sound waves after D/A conversion. However, it's TDM only...

Is there an RTAS (or VST) oversampling meter? I've been really getting into proper gain structuring in the digital mixing relm, and I think some of my mixes may have suffered due to inaccurate metering based on samples and not the actual reconstructed waves.

I've noticed that proper gain structuring all throughout the recording chain makes a huge difference in the final quality of a mix. I like to record pretty hot into my DAW, and I think I may be subjecting some of my tracks to digital distortion, even tho my meters say everything is fine. This builds up, and results in slight harshness that I think I can avoid.

Perhaps I'm missing something here? Am I justified in worrying about this?

I apologize again, I know this has been covered several times, but I can't recall/find anything in the search option.

[AlexLakis]

[AlexLakis]

[AlexLakis]

Throw me a frickin' bone here!

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I know Trillium Labs makes a meter that simulates the reconstruction of sound waves after D/A conversion.

I'm not sure that I understand the question, maybe noone else does either.

why would you want to simulate d/a conversion, when everything you monitor is necesarily going to be going through an actual d/a?

unless you are meaning previewing a higher sample/bit rate at 44.1 / 16 bit?

narco

[sound and form]

Hey Alex,

Take a look at the compatibilty info on the Digi website. MasterMeter is actually RTAS compatible.

Steve

[Saudade]

Yep I have been waiting for someone to make one myself, I'm on VST PC platform.

Then I realised I could be waiting forever.

So I just keep in mind what Paul Frindle said about the issue and do the following:

1. Record as hot as possible without clipping (optimise the performance of A/D converters)
2. Use the channel input trim to knock it down every channel by at least 6db. If you are more paranoid do 9 -12 db. This step is supposed to prevent internal overloading by plugin processes used. Without i/s peak meters to help us, we just have be as conservative with the levels and wish for the best.
3. You will end up with a very soft "master out". Put in your bus compressors/limiter or whatever then compensate upwards until you get a peak no more than -3db. And that is the level you should bounce for sending to mastering engineer who has better D/As to judge how loud it can get without sounding screwed up.

At least that is what I gathered from the technical mumbo jumbo.

But I practise it not like I am superstitious, I do hear the difference. I think.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

...Is there an RTAS (or VST) oversampling meter? I've been really getting into proper gain structuring in the digital mixing relm, and I think some of my mixes may have suffered due to inaccurate metering based on samples and not the actual reconstructed waves....

In your Music Production Toolkit you will find a CD called "Trillium Lane Labs Plug-ins". On it will be a demo called "TL MasterMeter Installer XP 2.0.0r9". Install and enjoy.

All 5 TL products are on there in RTAS format for PC.

Works great.

Quad on bro-ski.

Shane

[Shan]

Originally Posted by narco

I'm not sure that I understand the question, maybe noone else does either.

why would you want to simulate d/a conversion, when everything you monitor is necesarily going to be going through an actual d/a?

unless you are meaning previewing a higher sample/bit rate at 44.1 / 16 bit?

narco

This stuff is a must to know.

Hopefully all my links still work. It's been awhile since I created that post.

Hope that helps.

Shane

[matt thomas]

thanks

i knew about that stuff but never really paid it much attention, your links were an interesting read, thank yoiu

and yes I did misunderstand your original question, I missed the point that it was a meter you were after and thought you were looking for a plug that simulates the sound of a d/a. It makes more sense now

narco

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Shan

In your Music Production Toolkit you will find a CD called "Trillium Lane Labs Plug-ins". On it will be a demo called "TL MasterMeter Installer XP 2.0.0r9". Install and enjoy.

All 5 TL products are on there in RTAS format for PC.

Works great.

Quad on bro-ski.

Shane

HEY! How about them apples! Didn't even realize that existed in RTAS and was on a CD I all ready own! Thanks a lot, sound and form and Shane! I'll pop in the CD and run the demo. Wish it came with the Toolkit, but oh well!

Shane, you just reminded me, I've been meaning to post my experiences in making the Quad more quiet on the DUC! I called up Tyan, and one of their engineers gave me exact model numbers for our Quad Tyan board. I replaced the stock heat sinks with Zalmans, and that tiny, noisy fan on the chipset with a fanless design, bumped down the RPMs on my 120mm case fans, and installed some "car engine acoustic deadening material" in the case. Thing runs damn near silent now sitting right next to me! I'll post my results in the Quad thread shortly. I'm looking forward to seeing you back on there as well with some results for the 8-cores! Keep up the good work! thumbsup

Narco, yeah, sorry if my original post was a little confusing. Every once in a while I come across that TL white paper and I get freaked out all over again.

Saudade, thanks for your reply, that's how I operate now. I don't mind the low output levels, but sometimes, I get a little over-zealous working within plugins, and would like the additional peace of mind.

[Kappi]

The Oxford Limiter has it, its called recon meter.And while tracking its good to stay at least 6 dB away from the ceiling.

[matt thomas]

basically (according to one of the articles linked to above) if anyone has a good system this shouldn't matter to them (in a final product), so in taking it into account in CD mastering you are really catering for people with inadequate systems.

Obviously this has its benefits, as the majority (?) of people fall into this bracket, but it does remind me of my bands first recordings. The drummer in my band only had one speaker on his stereo, and so he wouldn't let us pan anything. "You've got to take into account people that only have one speaker" ha

obvioulsy the number of people with one speaker is miniscule compared the the number of people whose systems can't handle intersample peaks, but the analogy is there

narco

[AlexLakis]

True for the final master, but while mixing in the box, if you're not careful, this effect can accumulate and drastically affect the final sound of the mix, no? To the point where distortion can audibly appear on any system (if I'm understanding the issue correctly.)

As it has been said, processing ITB at conservative levels should be enough to avoid this problem all together. But if we didn't push the levels as hard as we could, what fun would that be?

And, yeah, if it's gonna sound like utter garbage on iPod earbuds or Myspace (oxymoron?,) what's the point? God, we're all screwed! At least for a while. Can't wait for global bandwidth and storage to improve, then we can do away with MP3-ness forever. Doesn't everybody all ready have personal T3 internet connection in Hong Kong or something?

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Saudade

Yep I have been waiting for someone to make one myself, I'm on VST PC platform.

Then I realised I could be waiting forever.

So I just keep in mind what Paul Frindle said about the issue and do the following:

1. Record as hot as possible without clipping (optimise the performance of A/D converters)

Doesn't this contradict all the other info that says don't record near 0dbFS because thats overloading the preamps in analog gear which is designed to operate closer to 0dbVU (-18dbFS or so)?

[buddha fingers]

Originally Posted by Shan

This stuff is a must to know.

Hopefully all my links still work. It's been awhile since I created that post.

Hope that helps.

Shane

damn, i cant believe i never knew about inter sample peaks! youd think after spending $35,000 and a year at Full Sail at least one of my teachers would have mentioned this. i feel kinda ripped off. haha. this is seriously some interesting stuff. thanks for that link

[DamZ]

However, does anybody knows if there's a METER for MAC AU or VST that reaches to do this:
http://img.audiofanzine.com/image.php?module=product&identifier=id&size=thumb2〈=en&product_id=101526

i've got an rme ff400, so digicheck, and it visualize the oversampling but not how much up, just if im over 0.

Does Oxford Limiter have this option? cause it's very expensive but i need it...i wouldnt like to buy something i dont need..

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by DamZ

However, does anybody knows if there's a METER for MAC AU or VST that reaches to do this:
http://img.audiofanzine.com/image.php?module=product&identifier=id&size=thumb2〈=en&product_id=101526

i've got an rme ff400, so digicheck, and it visualize the oversampling but not how much up, just if im over 0.

Does Oxford Limiter have this option? cause it's very expensive but i need it...i wouldnt like to buy something i dont need..

You want this:

Solid State Logic | Music

And it's free.

(It may not have existed when this thread was started!!)

[DamZ]

You want this:

Solid State Logic | Music

And it's free.

(It may not have existed when this thread was started!!)

i downloaded this tonight but doesnt do what i look for. it gives u the digital and analog clip level and the usage of the bits of dynamic. i see that recon meter function of oxford limiter does what i look for, but it's very expensive to use it just as metering