Garage Band

[flexoffset]

Apple is currently demonstrating a 'pro audio for everyone' program called 'Garage Band'.

Don't know much right now. Just got this tidbit from 'macminute dot com'

digitally mix up to 64 tracks, play over 50 instruments, over 1000 professional audio loops, record live audio performances, over 200 pro quality audio effects, vintage or modern guitar amps

Apparently at 9pm PST you can go here to view the webcast. It's also available righ now...
http://stream.apple.akadns.net/

[K.C.]

And there's a mere 60,000 folks watching the quicktime web cast as Jobs is demoing it right now.

John Mayer is playing guitar on stage through it and it sounds pretty damned good.

[flexoffset]

Yeah.
I just caught the last 5 minutes ... still watching the webcast right now.

http://stream.apple.akadns.net/

[K.C.]

Oh, one more thing. It's free with every new Mac.

[flexoffset]

Is it gonna sell for only $49 or $99?
It's noisy in here and couldn't hear any of it.

[masmasbasso]

$49 for the box iLife $99 for the additional "Jam" pack that has more amps, Bosendorpher piano, more loops, etc.

[Kaneepa]

GarbageBand!

Another prosumer application!

.....phew... I was fearing 'bout selling my hd accel system!




Michele

[mtsupiano]

I really don't know what to think. Seems a lot like a prosumer thing...definately the digi-killer that everyone was expecting. No new G5's but the xserves got the update which really pleases me...all in all not to bad.

Andrew

[BevvyB]

here ya go

http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/

[Johnny B]

According to Robotnic, who has seen the PT Killer, GB ain't it.

GB looks like you could use it for basic composition and certainly demo work. It looks like loads of fun.

But if you look at the hardware accessories, they do not seem to be up to the pro level.

However, Appogee will be announcing 2 new products at NAMM.

Perhaps, Apple has some kind of migratory path in mind, do your basic tarcking at home with GB, and then go into a PT Killer equipped pro studio if necessary.

Looks like we will have to wait a little longer till NAMM to see how this all shakes out and if the real PT killer emerges there.

Nevertheless, with GB alone, Apple just changed the world. Will they top it at NAMM? We'll see.

[De chromium cob]

Apples garageband page says-

Why, you’ll even find virtual recording engineers in the mix to help you out.

I guess we're not needed anymore- time to sell the gear and get a job flipping burgers or selling insurance.....it was fun while it lasted.

[BrianT]

We're all joking, and plenty of people will take offense at this thought, but......

The age of the pure audio engineer is coming to a close. Not completely. There will always be a few talented and needed specialists, but technology continues to educate people and make the whole process more idiotproof. I know many former musicians and producers who now engineer their own recordings. And many of them are good at it. Talented mixers will, to a large degree, dodge the bullet for a good while longer. I'm talking about tracking and overdub engineers.

You say I'm wrong? Fine. I might be. It happens. But think about this. In 1970, what would an "all-in-one" production by a guitar player sitting by himself in a "real" $1,000,000 studio sound like? How good could it be, excepting some insanely gifted 1 in a zillion person?

In 2004, what would an "all-in-one" production by a the same guitar player sitting by himself in his own, personal, $20,000 studio sound like?

2004 dude is gonna massacre 1970 dude, as far as walking out with something that sounds like a record. That trend is accelerating, now down even to the consumer level.

Now, the self appointed GS old fart patrol (which has nothing to do with your age), will probably flame me for such heresy. "Only pro engineers really UNDERSTAND", they will likely say.

And the harpooners in the bow of whaling boats really didn't like those metal ships, with their harpoon guns, taking their place, either. But they did.


Regards,
Brian T

[Johnny B]

Well I would not go applying at MickeyDees just yet.

Let's wait and see if the real PT Killer emerges at NAMM.

[eskay]

NAMM sure as hell will be interesting. I for one, am not happy that Apple, is putting their hand in everything. They are killing the pro environment. Everybody should stop drinking the "Apple is such an amazing company" juice, right now. Digidesign, or Apple, what's the ****in' difference? They both want to sell hardware. Digi has DSP cards, Apple CPU's. If you look at Apple's incomes, software is at the bottom of the bracket. Software provides them with the least income. Hardware is where they make their bread. Final Cut, was created to sell more computers, so are all the other iLife apps, and I'm sure this new pro audio app, is intended for that. To sell more Apple computers. Hey, you want this new feature....just upgrade your computer to have this feature. This has always been Apples philosophy as well as Digi's. You want this new plugin...just upgrade to HD. I've been a Mac user for many years, and this year I'm definetely making the switch to a PC fulltime. I have a PT HD rig that I'm going to use until the the CPU melts. I"m not upgrading my CPU for Apples sake, or Digi's sake. I'm giving it a lifetime of 3 years, that I can milk it. Lately, I've been doing more sequencing and producing and decided to buy Nuendo, so I can use all these cool VST plugs. I have a Dual 800 G4, and Nuendo runs like a dog in it. Just rewiring a very big Reason session, uses about 60 percent of my CPU. That is my other point. When the hell are we going to see some "real ****ing implementation of Dual Processors in the operating system???????" Why did it take until Panther to make the OS feel like a real OS, in terms of quickness and efficiency. My Dual 533 only 2 years old, is completely obsolete!!!!! (Not to worry I only paid $3,000 for it.) I'm only 27 and I've spent my last 6 years working low income audio jobs, strugling to make a difference in the audio community, and always thinking I will make some money somehow. This is the first time that I've thought to myself, maybe I should get another job, because every asshole now with GarageBand will think they have no need for audio engineers and other audio services. So it really pisses me off, when people on this forum don't see the whole equation. My final point, is I don't like that a computer company has to dictate to the audio community what should be the standards. End rant!!!

[stealthbalance]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BrianT
[B]We're all joking, and plenty of people will take offense at this thought, but......

The age of the pure audio engineer is coming to a close.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

so true so true. i started a thread about 4 months ago feeling the same thing.
and ya , mixers who are at the top of their game have a little more time - but not much. especially at those jack lord wallace mix rates. game over.
s

[XHipHop]

1/2 of my clients have downloaded cracked versions of cool edit pro or acid on their computer and tried recording their band. i haven't lost one of them. you guys are overreacting. it's just software.

what's the difference if they get it for free with their computer or they download it from kazaa OR if they purchase a piece of software for a few hundred. They'll either learn to use it or they won't and most won't.

this will NOT be the end for audio engineers.

[Nathanael]

Eskay, I think you are missing Brian's point. Of course there will be audio engineers. But there is a democritization going on that can't be denied.

You can make great strides in the DIY audio field, IF you are willing to work. There are threads upon threads at all of the boards where countless PRO engineers tell how to accomplish a task. YES, you will have to experiment. NO not everything will sound world class at home. But with a bit of research into technique that wasn't even possible 10 years ago, you can get very nice sounds for all but really critical projects. Get a few artists together to share gear/rent a space, etc. and you can get good to excellent basic sounds to disc (tape??). It is so easy to rent stratospherically good equipment that there really isn't an excuse for a real project not to have good basic tracks.

That's also why the mixers will have slightly longer life - it's a lot easier to tell someone where to start with a microphone than with a mix. Ever notice how easy it is to get an opinion on gear? It's easy to talk about and describe. Mic technique is easy enough to describe so that someone can experiment and get close. The game is a game of inches at the top of the field. I, you, and everyone here respects that. Brian's point is that for the average muso, they can get within inches on their own. That is a major paradigm shift. For most work, being within inches IS good enough, especially for the bedroom and even decent project studio crowd.

It is neither good nor bad. No one is out to "get" anyone. There is no conspiracy. None of us were guaranteed anything. Excellence will remain rare. The best engineers will still have tons of work. Those with the means and need will seek them out and pay them for their time/talents.

A few will figure out how to move beyond average skills and create new masterworks and new ways of working. By the time they have written about it and the bedroom crowd are copying it, they will have re-invented themselves and moved on - and will still be getting paid for their work. These guys share what they've learned because it is past history - and poses no risk to their pay, they have the skills to move on and discover new territory. Art is not static, and the best artists are works in motion. This explains why both are true - there will always be a high end, and yet the middle/low end will grow in capability as information flows freely.

[XHipHop]

I'm 24 and i grew up in this new environment. Maybe i'm not a true engineer like you guys, but i'm making a living at this and i'm not scared by the fact that everyone gets free recording software with a new mac. good for them. if they want a quality recording, they're still going to come to me.

[K.C.]

Well said Nathanael.

I stay employed in a couple of areas where there are countless new faces, but they're just learning to do what I've done and moved on from.

[K.C.]

Originally posted by XHipHop
I'm 24 and i grew up in this new environment. Maybe i'm not a true engineer like you guys, but i'm making a living at this and i'm not scared by the fact that everyone gets free recording software with a new mac. good for them. if they want a quality recording, they're still going to come to me.

Cool for you, and that will change as well.

[Berolzheimer]

Great, now we can look forward to a bunch more bland, boring, lifeless, generic music. Democratization? That's what Midi did, and it resulted in a bunch of boring, crappy music made by people who didn't have enough passion for music to even bother to learn how to play an instrument. This is more of the same.

[Nathanael]

Well, I think the democritization has more than one face. Yes there are more people than ever making records. That is good and bad.

The other piece is that there has never been this much access to musical training the world. I'm in the NYC metro area, and you can't swing a Schoeps microphone on a cable without smacking dozens of folk with HEAVY training and skills (classical world here). Just about anyone with desire can get a background in theory, music performance, music production, etc that has NEVER been available in history.

Sure the best still study with the best in the elite halls (this is genre independent). But the level of knowledge available for the asking is unprecedended.

You can say the glass is half empty if you look at the mediocrity produced by some who ignore what's available. You can also see the glass as half full if you look at the incredible opportunity open to anyone who wants to stand on the shoulders of giants.

As always, attittude, and typically one's perspective, is a choice.

[K.C.]

Originally posted by Berolzheimer
Great, now we can look forward to a bunch more bland, boring, lifeless, generic music.

That's why it'll be popular, people will be able to create more of the same. Those who are the indescriminant consumers of the product that's being turned out for them will now have an opportunity to feel like they're 'part of the scene.'

[ttauri]

Seems to me that there's been a hole on the Apple side for something like PT-Free or Deck, but with support for a few more modern touches like support for higher resolution files, basic MIDI, a decent number of tracks. But this looks a little too consumer for that (from the screenshots doesn't look like there'll be busses for effects or whatever)...

I'm a little surprised how hidden the mention of Apple's other 'revolutionary' contribution to audio--Audio Units--is.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[Robotnik]

Originally posted by Berolzheimer
Great, now we can look forward to a bunch more bland, boring, lifeless, generic music.

This will coincide with the "which is the best mic-pre to use for bongos?" type questions.

Engineering isn't magic.

[eskay]

I didn't say I was scared, so let's get that straight first of all.
8 years ago when I first started in the recording industry, I did what everyone did. Worked as an intern at a big facility. The stuff that I learned there was priceless. At the same time, because technology was emerging and changing so rapidly, I attended a 4 year university to get a degree in audio technology. The real world experience and my knowledge with all the new computer related software and hardware, opened the doors for me. I easily found work. The most important thing that I learned working in the big facilities was respect for my peers, the engineers, the producers, the studio people. Everything just glued together. It was one big family, when you were at the big studio. Technology is great, but I think the problem is that people are not collaborating anymore. The idealogy of producer, engineer, artist is where I think all the magic exists in music production. Now you have one person and the computer. Or one person a drum machine, a computer, and an entourage of 15. A lot of the new school cats accept this, and have a hard time understanding what the concept of needing a fresh set of ears, hearing and interpeting you work. Yes, the good and dedicated people will survive, but it's getting more and more difficlut to stay in the game. I keep hearing from everybody that this is great. More software for kids to make music, which means they will want to get into the big studios to record, which means they wil need an engineer. Well, why the hell or so many big facilities closing? Why do we have more an more people out of work, like real musicians? But to look at the bright side I think at the end this might be good, cause the real musicians and the talented people will work harder, come up with better concepts and hopefully be creative enough to stay in this great game we call "music for life....."

eskay.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Nathanael


The other piece is that there has never been this much access to musical training the world. I'm in the NYC metro area, and you can't swing a Schoeps microphone on a cable without smacking dozens of folk with HEAVY training and skills (classical world here). Just about anyone with desire can get a background in theory, music performance, music production, etc that has NEVER been available in history.

I disagree with this. In America, there was far more access to classical instructin in the past than there is now. At the beginning of the 20th Century, middle class children were expected to play an instrument - piano, violin, flute. a large percentage of kits were expected to have piano lessons. Even up to the post war years, competent instructors were available in every town. When I was in high school, in a small city in Texas, everty elementary school, every junior high school, and every high school had a band, an orchestra, and a choir. (Well, in elementary school, choir was part of every class). But even in my high school, more than 30% of the students took a music class. that's 500 students in a high school with 1500 students. This isno longer happening - at least, not in Nashville, where i live now. When educational budgets get tight, the music programs were the first to go.

An Arts Magnet school in a school system simply does not reach the same number of children that a system wide band/orchestra/choir program does. But that's really a subject for another thread.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by BrianT
...2004 dude is gonna massacre 1970 dude, as far as walking out with something that sounds like a record. ...

This is true however 2004 dude isn't going to be able to earn a living from making a recording that is only as good as everybody's kid next door. Technology has raised the bar because "professional music" always needs to be better than the amateur music people don't need to pay for. In a nutshell. 1970 dude was exceptional while 2004 dude isn't.

I think being exceptional still counts big-time.

[Bob Olhsson]

To add to what Dave said, most public schools also provided students with instruments and the best could continue learning in the military if their parents, like most, couldn't afford college. During the 1930s most of the world's great musicians moved to the United States, played in our orchestras, played on our records, played on our radio, played for our movies and taught our children. The US became the hub of the musical world for 50 years. This didn't happen just because we were so "kewl."

Today music has become an upper middle-class avocation that is about as accessible as playing golf. If you've got the money, I suppose it's more accessible for some than it was 50 years ago because you no longer need to compete with the really talented people who don't have the money.

[Dave Martin]

Continuing with Bob's post, when I was in high school (1973-1975) the school supplied me with a fully carved acoustic bass (for orchestra) as well as a fairly decent tuba (for band). At today's prices, the two instruments would cost something more than $15K US.

That's not to say that there aren't musical outlets for low income kids, but it takes far more effort in most cases. Other outlets with more immediate satisfaction (hip hop, rap) simply do not offer the depth that a classical music education offers.

And no, I don't consider a turntablet to be a musical instrument.