Garden office or garage conversion?

[montanasan]

Based here in Scotland, UK.
I'm running out of space in the house and I need to do something about it. I have a garage that could be converted and I am also looking at companies that build garden office/studio space that require no planning permission. I mostly work alone so I need a little control room and a recording space big enough to mic a drum kit at least. My budget will not be huge(vague) and I'm open to any suggestions, help, pointers in the right direction.
Thanks in advance, joe.

[SK1]

Here's a good site to get started.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/

I've thought about the garage conversion thing, but out here they're usually too small for my preference. I have seen some cool very cool garage conversions however.

Does anyone else have some great sites or books on studio construction ??
If so please list them here.

[montanasan]

Thanks for that Ski. Anyone else done any garage studio conversion?

[uncle duncan]

Have you considered heat/cooling? Maybe you can tap into the ductwork of your existing system. Or maybe you'll need to install a seperate system. I put a new heater/AC unit outside, on a cement slab on the ground, with duct work coming in under the floor, and I can run the thing while tracking with no noise. If you mount a unit on the roof or on a wall, you're going to get rumble, which is really going to limit how you use it.
The other thing to consider is mass. Mass stops sound, so the more mass you can have in your walls, the less your neighbors will hear, and the less you will hear of your neighbors. A cement block building would be preferable, with a floating wall/floor/ceiling inside, but that might be overkill for your application. The thing is, if you're in a wood enclosure, the enclosure can act like a resonater - like the body of a guitar - and it can amplify the sound inside the room, so that everyone within earshot can hear exactly what you're doing.
For electric power, you probably want one circuit for all your gear, with a floating ground (the third, green ground wire) running back to the ground stake. This helps keep ground loops out of the system. You could always run your lights and coffee maker off a seperate circuit.
An outdoor smoking area with a hot tub would be nice, but not mandatory. Wait! If you're in California, I think it is mandatory.

[montanasan]

It is a cement block garage so I guess I'm off to a good start. Is the floating wall, floor thing expensive to do?

[numrologst]

Originally Posted by montanasan

It is a cement block garage so I guess I'm off to a good start. Is the floating wall, floor thing expensive to do?

expensive and for unhandy men like me very hard, if not impossible... But if you are handy then it would be a challenge but a doable challenge

[montanasan]

I'm not handy at all so I will not be doing the conversion myself. That would be a complete disaster. If I thought I could then I would as it'd save me money. But I do need to make sure I'm getting the right work done as I will have to employ someone to do it for me so any help/advice will be greatly received.

[TEMAS]

Last year I had builders construct a drywall and suspended ceiling around the internal perimeter of a 22' x 10' x 8' room inside my apartment. It consisted of a 5" cavity filled with rockwool, then a timber frame holding 3 x 15mm of soundbloc Plasterboard with Green Glue between the sheets. Once the windows were in and walls plastered, I finished off the rest of it - painting, accustic treatment, doors, electrics, furniture etc.

I had some structural work carried out (chimney breast removal, RSJ fitted) at the same time and a new bathroom fitted, so its difficult to give you an exact figure for the construction labour costs for studio alone.

Here an idea of what it might cost for 200 - 300 sq ft space on a tight budget.


Timber - £800 - £1,200

Plasterboard - £500- £1,000

Screws & clamps etc - £500 - £700

Resilient wall ties and rubber isolaters - £500 - £700

Green Glue - £500 - £700

Labour - £3,000 - £7,000 (depending on how much you do yourself)

Plastering - £1,000

Windows and doors - £1,000 - £3,000

Accustic treatment - £400 - £1,000

Electrics - £500

Fixtures and fittings and furniture - £200 - £5,000

Custom cables & patchbay - £1,000 - £2,000



Total - £10,000 - £20,000





Oh, and don't forget to consider legal fees, structural engineer's fees, county council building regulation fees, insurance etc.

[SK1]

Looks like you have a lot of research ahead of you. I've seen people do some pretty cool garage conversions out here for 50K + usd. ...... when they're doing some of the work themselves. Of course it can really go up from there.

I've heard triple your expected budget. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

[SeanG]

I converted my detached two car garage into a small commercial recording studio. I did it myself. It was a lot of work, and expensive even doing the labor myself.

There's a lot to consider… dedicated electrical, HVAC, plumbing, tons of 5/8th sheet rock, lumber, neoprene pucks, real hardwood floors, thick solid doors with oversized jams. What ever number you are thinking in your head… double it. I bought the house specifically for the detached garage, as I was looking to build my own place after years of running my studio out of a leased farm house. My space is also on a concrete slab and the exterior walls are 8” concrete block so I had a pretty good starting point for isolation from the outside. Also the space will shrink quickly, having to air gap walls, layer multiple materials, hanging traps/diffusers, floating the floor, all eats up a lot of space.

I'm a full time producer/engineer so I'll say for me it's paying off. The thing that sucks most is all of the money could have been spent on a rack full of 1073’s.

[SeanG]

..... make that several racks of 1073's.

[SK1]

Originally Posted by SeanG

..... make that several racks of 1073's.

Nice looking place.

My questions are ....

what came up that you did not expect ?

What was your final cost ?? Two 8 space racks of 1073's ? Three ??

How many square feet ?

How high are the ceilings ?

[Mark Cattano]

Hey Joe and Happy New Year to all!

I'm in a new house, too, and lost my basement space from my previous home that I had dedicated as a studio. It was far from perfect, and small, but it was private and I could get my music done. I now have an attached 2-car garage that could be converted into a studio, and have a contractor coming by today to work up some numbers. I have no idea what the estimate will be, but my preliminary inquiries into the matter have yielded dollar amounts ranging from $12,000 to $75,000- that's quite a range! I will update you later on after the contractor stops by.

Mark Cattano
Magneto Studios
www.heedmusic.com
www.myspace.com/markcattano

[montanasan]

Hey Mark,
Hope the figure is nearer 12K than 75K. Fingers crossed.

[Stick]

I did a garage conversion last summer and fall. Turned out awesome.

The finished pics:
http://www.thestickhouse.com/The%20Studio.html

You can see all the pics through the process I took here:
http://www.thestickhouse.com/studioconstruction.html

or, if you want to read about the process and see the same pics:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...180&highlight=

[Stick]

Originally Posted by SeanG

..... make that several racks of 1073's.

I feel your pain. CHA-CHING.

[SeanG]

Originally Posted by SK1

Nice looking place.

My questions are ....

what came up that you did not expect ?

What was your final cost ?? Two 8 space racks of 1073's ? Three ??

How many square feet ?

How high are the ceilings ?

Thank you...

What I didn't expect... not much, cost of dumpster, sewage ejector, mini-hot water heater that keeps breaking, renting sheet rock lift, and building a sidewalk.

Final cost approx... Two 8 space, I will say considerable amount was spent on installing bathroom and HVAC. So since your garage is attached and if you don't mind clients going into your primary dwelling, you could use your house bathroom and possibly piggy back your HVAC off your house system it will save you a large amount (10 to 20k) mine was all new installs including running a 85' run of sewer to an ejector pump.

Total sq ft... 550

Ceiling in main tracking room is 14' all other rooms are 9'.

Stick nice place... love the shower, and the big screen with analysis.

[Stick]

Originally Posted by SeanG

Stick nice place... love the shower, and the big screen with analysis.

Thanks. Did that bathroom myself... tile and the rock. Fun stuff. (I actually did a lot of the work on the studio with the contractor I hired. I was basically the laborer and the boss at the same time. It worked really well to be there all the time to clarify the plans for the acoustics and isolation, and then to schlep 4x12 sheets of drywall, load 'em on the lifter, and screw 'em til the cows came home.)

Yeah, the Spectrafoo on the TV is mostly bling-factor... usually I just run it on the laptop next to the main screens on the desk. But until I get the big phat Icon or Duality to impress, Foo on the flat-screen will have to do.

FYI: My overbuilt HVAC system is separate from the house. It's 3 zones (Control Room, Tracking Room, Machine Room) in under 400 sq feet. Each duct runs all the way back to the unit on the roof for isolation between rooms, which is away from the studio on the house. It cost about $10K installed. And it's pretty dang quiet. You can hear just a little airflow through the vents, but it's pretty minimal, and you don't hear it when any music is playing. No mechanical noise at all. And the iso between the Control and Tracking Rooms is VERY good... and I didn't float floors... not enough headroom or $$ for that.

I was able to tie the bathroom plumbing into the house, though we had to run a bigger waste pipe from one end of the house to the other, so that's why the bathroom is up about a foot and a half from the studio level (It's now on the level of the house). Fortunately, one of the house's water heaters is right on the other side of the wall from the studio bathroom. Gets hot pretty quick.

[Mark Cattano]

Hey Guys

Contractor came by tonight, and I'll probably have an estimate tomorrow. Learned a few quick things. First, that my original idea of having the entire room done in tongue-in-groove wood planks is going to be pretty expensive. Also, if I want to put in a bathroom, that's going to be at least another $4 or $5K, so that might have to wait. The contractor suggested sheetrock , as the cost would be a fraction of doing the room in, say, cedar. But as of right now, I'm thinking I might be able to pull this thing off for under $15K, which would make it much more feasible for me right now. Somehow, I think the person that said "whatever figure you've got in your head, double it", might be right.

Mark Cattano
Magneto Studios
www.heedmusic.com
www.myspace.com/markcattano

[SK1]

Stick .....

Great looking place man. Love the pulldown bed ! Thanks for the links and info.


Mark ....

Good luck and keep us posted.


Man, I love this stuff

[TEMAS]

That pull down bed is the coolest thing dude!

I love the bass traps on the ceiling too.

[SeanG]

Originally Posted by Mark Cattano

But as of right now, I'm thinking I might be able to pull this thing off for under $15K,

Sounds like a good price, yeah skippin the bathroom should really help cut costs. Are you sound prooffin'... studio glass... multiple iso booths....? If you are and 15k is the price thats quite a steal. I think the floating floor in my place cost about 7k from the neoprene, framing, multiple sheetings, and solid 3/4 hardwood on top. Thats with me on labor.

Mark keep us updated.

[Stick]

Originally Posted by TEMAS

That pull down bed is the coolest thing dude!

I love the bass traps on the ceiling too.

Thanks! Yeah, We built the cabinet so the underside of the bed when it's up in the wall is sort of a lattice, so the sound goes through into the mattress... bass trap! Usually when you build a Murphy Bed, the whole underside is solid, which I didn't want directly behind my listening position!

I wanted the ceiling absorbers for two reasons... to knock down reflections and to hold the lighting. I didn't want to be putting cans through my 3 layers of 5/8" drywall. Big holes in the soundproofing are bad.

And $15K sounds a unreal to me, but I don't really know what sort of construction you're talking about. Granted, I had a contractor working for $50 an hour, but I was through $15K about halfway through the drywall (6 layers of drywall...). And, I had a bunch of demo and repairs to the structure to take care of before we started framing. So, mine's probably a little higher than "usual".

Just sayin'... I hope you can do what you want for that, but that sounds mighty low to me. Are you planning for the wiring? The trim? Sheesh, my Alder wood trim was a chunk o' change, and then we had to rip it, sand it, stain it, seal it, install it.... ugh.

But, here's the deal on the wood floor... we got our 3/4" solid Walnut floor for $4.99 a square foot here: http://www.simplefloors.com/. And that's prefinished. And the quality is excellent... it installed easy. But still, $1800 for the materials and probably 3 days of labor ($350 a day for the contractor, and me for free long into the night)...

[Mark Cattano]

Sean

Hey man. No, I've got a real simple set-up, and it's really just me, except when my rhythm section comes by. I've got the "everything in one room" set-up. No iso booths, no separate control room. I know it's not Sunset Sound, but I've actually gotten some decent results. You can read about it from an article on me from last October in Mix Magazine here: http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_magneto_studios/

The other aspect here is that my neighbors aren't too close to me, so I'm more worried about the sonic bleed into my house than into any of my neighbors homes. Surely there will be some soundproofing needed, but I don't think I'll need to go hog-wild with it.

Mark Cattano
Magneto Studios
www.heedmusic.com
www.myspace.com/markcattano

[Mark Cattano]

Brian

Just got the call from the contractor-$12K, not including the wood floor. So, if the floor is around $3K, there's $15K right there. It DOES seem incredibly inexpensive, I was thinking of double that. But I've also got to either build or buy a shed and drop that in my backyard for all of the stuff that's currently in my garage, so...there's another $1K(?) or $2K(?)...it never ends...

Mark Cattano
Magneto Studios
www.heedmusic.com
www.myspace.com/markcattano

[SeanG]

Originally Posted by Mark Cattano

Sean

Hey man. No, I've got a real simple set-up, and it's really just me, except when my rhythm section comes by. I've got the "everything in one room" set-up. No iso booths, no separate control room. I know it's not Sunset Sound, but I've actually gotten some decent results. You can read about it from an article on me from last October in Mix Magazine here: Project Studio-A Hobby Turns Serious at Mark Cattano’s Magneto Studios

The other aspect here is that my neighbors aren't too close to me, so I'm more worried about the sonic bleed into my house than into any of my neighbors homes. Surely there will be some soundproofing needed, but I don't think I'll need to go hog-wild with it.

Cool, nice mix article. thumbsup

[Stick]

Originally Posted by Mark Cattano

Brian

Just got the call from the contractor-$12K, not including the wood floor. So, if the floor is around $3K, there's $15K right there. It DOES seem incredibly inexpensive, I was thinking of double that. But I've also got to either build or buy a shed and drop that in my backyard for all of the stuff that's currently in my garage, so...there's another $1K(?) or $2K(?)...it never ends...

Mark Cattano
Magneto Studios
www.heedmusic.com
www.myspace.com/markcattano

My 10x12 TuffShed was $3500. Been there. Still trying to get everything in there. HA! But, they come and set it up and paint it. Done in about 4 hours.