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30th December 2006, 01:01 PM
| #1 |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 154
|  when exactly is a band really a band (legally)? i know that topic isn´t that interesting, but i need some help. and any help would be greatly appreciated! alright. it´s for a paper at the university and the exact question is: what is a band by law? (i hope thats correct english and you understand what i mean) i need the lawful definition of a band. maybe there are some experts here. i don´t know where to start, which books to read, what to google for... and maybe someone knows some famous cases that have been regulated by law. thx guys
__________________ christoph bischoff student of musical sciences  |
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30th December 2006, 01:10 PM
| #2 |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 302
 | There is no "lawful" definition other than one similar to copyright. Once a band considers itself to exist, then it exists. Any legalities don't emerge until you start signing contracts. |
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30th December 2006, 01:16 PM
| #3 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 154
| i thought so, too. but why should i write a paper about a topic that doesn´t exist? i´m absolutely not into law at all.... so maybe you are right...
__________________ christoph bischoff student of musical sciences |
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30th December 2006, 01:27 PM
| #4 |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 489
| I would suggest that there is no definition of a "band" but there are definitions of various legal entities like sole propritorships, limited liability corporations, and corporations, both C type corporations and S type. If you are thinking about getting "legally" serious about your band, get a real lawyer and investigate which type are most advantageous to you. |
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30th December 2006, 01:28 PM
| #5 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 302
| Well maybe you could contact some record labels and ask them for examples of contracts offered to bands. They will contain examples of what the label considers a "band" to be as the legal entity bound by the contract. It'll be different in various situations. |
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30th December 2006, 03:40 PM
| #6 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 162
 | This is out of my league, but I was reading something about this somewhere. Labels regard songwriters as the band and everyone else as employees of the songwriters. To keep a band legally, songwriters share some amount of publishing with their band members. This way, the labels aren't inclined to separate the non songwriters from the other members. I understand the Beatles did this by sharing publishing rights with Ringo as an example. |
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30th December 2006, 04:00 PM
| #7 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 288
| bands are defined by their contractual agreements, among the member of the band... common arrangements are those of of a partnership or corporation... without a legal arrangement there is no band legally... |
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30th December 2006, 04:17 PM
| #8 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: A stoned throw from ground zero
Posts: 2,955
| File a business license either as an individual business or better yet a limited partnership. You can take it a step further filing for a Trademark for your band's Name and Logo. If you're writing, send in music collections for copyright on a regular basis. If you plan to write off your expenses, plan on filing a business personal property list and be prepared to pay a small tax on your gear, but the overall write-offs are well worth it even for a part time band. You can honestly and absolutely legally write off thousands, even if your band income is nothing to brag about. All of you will have tons of tax write offs for business start-up costs, depreciation etc. Mileage to and from rehearsal, all your gear, utilities for that percentage of your home's square footage used strictly for "business", legal fees if any, trade publications, promotional expenses, office supplies, you name it. Hire your kid sister to clean, keep really good records of all expenses. File everything on schedule "C" turbotax. IRS can not deny your expenses as long as you are making a legitimate attempt to generate income. You are also allowed to fall flat on your face and try again. This is especially important if your start-up costs are coming from your day job income.
__________________ Don't look at me in that tone of voice  |
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30th December 2006, 10:55 PM
| #9 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 154
| thx for your input guys!  but it´s really just a presentation at the university, nothing about my band or anything similar... but you definitaly gave me some things to think about. keep it coming if you have more information.
__________________ christoph bischoff student of musical sciences |
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31st December 2006, 12:40 AM
| #10 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,103
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__________________ ___________________________________ "Revolution is the opiate of intellectuals." - Anon. | |
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31st December 2006, 01:05 AM
| #11 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,116
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Joint venture. The No. 2 term you are looking for... Partnership. Most bands probably fall within those categories. You can also have sole proprietorships with employees (the current Guns 'n' Roses as far as I know), partnerships with employees, limited partnerships as well as limited partnerships plus emloyees (I think the Eagles go here), corporations as well as corporations with employees, limited liability companies as well as limited liability companies plus employees. | |
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31st December 2006, 01:20 AM
| #12 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nesna, Norway
Posts: 909
| When the guitar player sleeps with the drummer's girlfriend.... 
__________________ "Creative work defines itself; therefore, confront the work." John Cage Gary Hoffman Arctic Circle Recording Studio |
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31st December 2006, 01:25 AM
| #13 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hamburg
Posts: 832
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31st December 2006, 01:34 AM
| #14 |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 215
| It's probably a good idea to consider that whatever the term may mean in the US (legally) very likely has little to do with what the term means in Germany...
__________________ Kubi |
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31st December 2006, 02:47 AM
| #15 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hamburg
Posts: 832
| The terms may be different, but certainly written on paper too... Hey, i didn't realize, you were from HH too... In Germany you can found an e.V. (eingetragener Verein), GbR (Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts/Partnership), GmbH (Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung/Joint Venture) depending on eventual income and tax relations. ...any contract between different natural persons stating that they form a band will do Guten Rutsch! Niko |
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5th January 2007, 06:13 PM
| #16 | ||
| Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 154
|  Quote:
Quote:
i hope you had a great sylvester, too! the GbR / Partnership thing was mostly the main topic. I found some books, collected information and compiled it into a paper. So, if anyone is interested (and understands the german language), I´m willing to send it to him. I especially can recommend the following book to anyone who does something similar or wants to get into serious business with his band. really valuable information. but also in german...  Berndorff/Berndorff/Eigler: Musikrecht - die häufigsten Fragen des Musikgeschäfts, 2004. it covers many topics if you want to get into business, and probably helps preventing huge mistakes, not only as a musician but also if you want to start a lable, it has info about contracts, about producers (  ) and so on...have a good time everyone and thanks for your answers.... and one more thing... i thought most of the time, the drummer sleeps with the guitarists girlfriend 
__________________ christoph bischoff student of musical sciences | ||
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