when exactly is a band really a band (legally)?

[beranie]

i know that topic isn´t that interesting, but i need some help. and any help would be greatly appreciated!
alright. it´s for a paper at the university and the exact question is:
what is a band by law? (i hope thats correct english and you understand what i mean)
i need the lawful definition of a band.
maybe there are some experts here.
i don´t know where to start, which books to read, what to google for...
and maybe someone knows some famous cases that have been regulated by law.
thx guys

[PhilR]

There is no "lawful" definition other than one similar to copyright. Once a band considers itself to exist, then it exists. Any legalities don't emerge until you start signing contracts.

[beranie]

i thought so, too. but why should i write a paper about a topic that doesn´t exist? i´m absolutely not into law at all.... so maybe you are right...

[AlphaDingo]

I would suggest that there is no definition of a "band" but there are definitions of various legal entities like sole propritorships, limited liability corporations, and corporations, both C type corporations and S type. If you are thinking about getting "legally" serious about your band, get a real lawyer and investigate which type are most advantageous to you.

[PhilR]

Well maybe you could contact some record labels and ask them for examples of contracts offered to bands. They will contain examples of what the label considers a "band" to be as the legal entity bound by the contract. It'll be different in various situations.

[alcohol]

This is out of my league, but I was reading something about this somewhere.

Labels regard songwriters as the band and everyone else as employees of the songwriters. To keep a band legally, songwriters share some amount of publishing with their band members. This way, the labels aren't inclined to separate the non songwriters from the other members. I understand the Beatles did this by sharing publishing rights with Ringo as an example.

[analogjeff]

bands are defined by their contractual agreements, among the member of the band... common arrangements are those of of a partnership or corporation... without a legal arrangement there is no band legally...

[FFTT]

File a business license either as an individual business or better yet a limited partnership. You can take it a step further filing for a Trademark for your band's
Name and Logo.

If you're writing, send in music collections for copyright on a regular basis.

If you plan to write off your expenses, plan on filing a business personal property
list and be prepared to pay a small tax on your gear, but the overall write-offs are well worth it even for a part time band.

You can honestly and absolutely legally write off thousands, even if your band income
is nothing to brag about.

All of you will have tons of tax write offs for business start-up costs, depreciation etc.
Mileage to and from rehearsal, all your gear, utilities for that percentage of your home's square footage used strictly for "business", legal fees if any, trade publications, promotional expenses, office supplies, you name it.

Hire your kid sister to clean, keep really good records of all expenses.
File everything on schedule "C" turbotax.

IRS can not deny your expenses as long as you are making a legitimate attempt
to generate income. You are also allowed to fall flat on your face and try again.

This is especially important if your start-up costs are coming from your day job income.

[beranie]

thx for your input guys!
but it´s really just a presentation at the university, nothing about my band or anything similar...
but you definitaly gave me some things to think about.
keep it coming if you have more information.

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by analogjeff

bands are defined by their contractual agreements, among the member of the band... common arrangements are those of of a partnership or corporation... without a legal arrangement there is no band legally...

in some instances though, a partnership may be legally presumed even in the absence of a written agreement between the parties. this is true in some states of the USA, but ymmv depending on jurisdiction.

[ozraves]

Originally Posted by beranie

thx for your input guys!
but it´s really just a presentation at the university, nothing about my band or anything similar...
but you definitaly gave me some things to think about.
keep it coming if you have more information.

The No. 1 term you are looking for...

Joint venture.

The No. 2 term you are looking for...

Partnership.

Most bands probably fall within those categories. You can also have sole proprietorships with employees (the current Guns 'n' Roses as far as I know), partnerships with employees, limited partnerships as well as limited partnerships plus emloyees (I think the Eagles go here), corporations as well as corporations with employees, limited liability companies as well as limited liability companies plus employees.

[ArcCirDude]

When the guitar player sleeps with the drummer's girlfriend....

[pan]

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

When the guitar player sleeps with the drummer's girlfriend....

...the band needs a new drummer

[Kubilay]

It's probably a good idea to consider that whatever the term may mean in the US (legally) very likely has little to do with what the term means in Germany...

[pan]

The terms may be different, but certainly written on paper too...

Hey, i didn't realize, you were from HH too...
In Germany you can found an e.V. (eingetragener Verein), GbR (Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts/Partnership), GmbH (Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung/Joint Venture) depending on eventual income and tax relations.

...any contract between different natural persons stating that they form a band will do

Guten Rutsch!

Niko

[beranie]

Originally Posted by Kubilay

It's probably a good idea to consider that whatever the term may mean in the US (legally) very likely has little to do with what the term means in Germany...

yes, you are totally right, my mistake....

Originally Posted by pan

The terms may be different, but certainly written on paper too...

Hey, i didn't realize, you were from HH too...
In Germany you can found an e.V. (eingetragener Verein), GbR (Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts/Partnership), GmbH (Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung/Joint Venture) depending on eventual income and tax relations.

...any contract between different natural persons stating that they form a band will do

Guten Rutsch!

Niko

Hi Niko. I had a very gut rutsch... almost too good.... and no hangover thanks to millions of gallons of water....
i hope you had a great sylvester, too!

the GbR / Partnership thing was mostly the main topic.

I found some books, collected information and compiled it into a paper. So, if anyone is interested (and understands the german language), I´m willing to send it to him.
I especially can recommend the following book to anyone who does something similar or wants to get into serious business with his band. really valuable information. but also in german...

Berndorff/Berndorff/Eigler: Musikrecht - die häufigsten Fragen des Musikgeschäfts, 2004.

it covers many topics if you want to get into business, and probably helps preventing huge mistakes, not only as a musician but also if you want to start a lable, it has info about contracts, about producers (fuuck) and so on...

have a good time everyone and thanks for your answers....

and one more thing...
i thought most of the time, the drummer sleeps with the guitarists girlfriend