Hip hop producers start their beats by using drums and bass so how do Rock songs get

[EMPORIO]

started ?

I'm guessing for the most part its by a guitar melody ?

What the difference between lead and rhythm guitar though ?

I'm pretty sure its a good lead guitar melody that is usually the first step right ?

[3rd world order]

i usually start with drums and vocals

[Dot]

Whiskey

[simonv]

Yo, I like to get the dopest tamborine sound first, and then work my way up, know what I mean? Then I just add chords and lyrics and all that sh1t.
But rock beetz all start from the tamborine for me, word.

[stevep]

Cowbell

[Joey Walnuts]

Inspiration is the beginning-

It always helps to have a ex stripper/slut girl friend that is out of control...................
Alcohol plus (whatever)
Alot of testosterone
Add one part Les Paul(B.C Rich will do), then a generous portion of a loud amp (Mesa, or Marshall)

Thats the start. Then you get to show your new riffs to the band at rehersal.
Then your premadonna singer will say its not the right key.
I could go on.......

[pan]

In rock it's all about a great riff ... could you say a riff equals a beat?

Ih HipHop you have a beat and look for a hook and spit some rhymes

In Rock or RnB - ultimately Jazz - you have a song that works even performed on a guitar only
(no HipHop bashing... re: Is Rap Music )
It might be a piano...


but ...

_It depends_

[u b k]

bass and voice.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Blast9]

LOL you smart-asses

****

@ OP --- Generally it starts with the gutarist chugging on a mean riff with a mean sound.

Then you (the singer) would be inspired by the riff to come up with some melody line.

You get off on the feel of the riff as well as the sound, much as a programmer and rapper would get off on the sound and feel of the hot sample they looped up on the MPC.

Lead gtr generally doesn't have much to do with the birth/beginnings of a new song, but sometimes you come up with a cool vocal melody from noodling around on your guitar.

Personally I do program beats as well, and have def been inspired to come up with the mother of all riffs using this method

Many ways to skin a (rock) cat!

[juicylime]

It starts with a song. And if not a song then a riff. Go give it a try, writing good rock songs is one of the easiest ways to make money in the world.

[Blast9]

[ixnys]

For me it usually starts with a chord progression from playing either guitar, piano, or bass that in turn inspires a vocal melody..they really go hand in hand. From there I put a drum beat to the song.

[DirtyMan]

Originally Posted by EMPORIO

started ?

I'm guessing for the most part its by a guitar melody ?

What the difference between lead and rhythm guitar though ?

I'm pretty sure its a good lead guitar melody that is usually the first step right ?

most beat makers i know start with some digging .. i don't think theres any rule .. i know a band i used to deal with would just jam till somthing was dooin it

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by ixnys

For me it usually starts with a chord progression from playing either guitar, piano, or bass that in turn inspires a vocal melody..they really go hand in hand. From there I put a drum beat to the song.

when I listen to pop stuff like Lennon/McCartney, I actually think it's more like a vocal line harmonizing over a chord progression.

In a lot of cases, the melody itself isn't enough to make the song compelling, and at the same time, the chords can be really simple, but together, *bingo*, a song.

[u b k]

wait, are we talking about mixing or writing here? if it's writing, i think most songs either start their life as a guitar riff, or as a strum-an-acoustic-and-sing deal. lots of things are born of jams, too.

if you're a one man show and trying to write a rock tune, i'd start by just writing a song, either on piano or acoustic. once you've got a song, then arrange it for rock.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[andychamp]

Lots of rocks songs start life as a raunchy guitar riff and then someone tries to sing to it. If they're good, they can make it work.
But often guitar players don't want to change "their riff" to accomodate a melody and the end result is just that: someone belting out angry lyrics over (against?) a massive wall of guitar.
It usually works better when, as soon as you've got a cool chord progression, you continue to develop the melody and the rythm (=riffs) together. That's when it starts to sound like a song

I do hip hop and I often start from a chord progression or bassline. I find that the type of song I end up writing is often a function of what instrument I had at hand when I started the tune. ON my REALLY lucky days, I woke up from a dream with an idea. On those rare days, I usually end up with something really good. If I wake up with an idea, and I put if off to do other stuff before I write or record it, the idea ALWAYS dissapears. The music/song is my pimp, when it says move I have to move, or I'll pay for it later.

That's why,
My key to getting over writer's block is fiddeling with a different instrument. If I can't come up with a song, I'll pick up my bass and practice, whip out some piano/guitar books and practice, or try to make a drum track.

It's like a fight, you have to hit your opponent from different angles some times.

[cap217]

Hip-hop and chord progression dont really go hand in hand!

I mean, do you know you keys and natural progressions and sharps and flats and all the theory? I have never seen a rap producer make a beat by saying... I am going to write in the key of G#. Usually its C and they dont know it. Or Timbo with all black keys. I mean when you say chords you are saying you know that an Ab7 is G#-C-D#-F#?

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by cap217

Hip-hop and chord progression dont really go hand in hand!(...)

I dunno, a lot of today's rap/r 'n b sound like someone took great care to write an elaborate backing track and then ditched everything but beats and bass once the vocal melody was recorded.

Originally Posted by cap217

Hip-hop and chord progression dont really go hand in hand!

I mean, do you know you keys and natural progressions and sharps and flats and all the theory? I have never seen a rap producer make a beat by saying... I am going to write in the key of G#. Usually its C and they dont know it. Or Timbo with all black keys. I mean when you say chords you are saying you know that an Ab7 is G#-C-D#-F#?

I don't think most writers of any music set out to purposely write in G etc... (UNless it's their favorite key or something).

I think most folk sit at an instrument and play around until something develops. The writer may end up in G because he was fiddeling in G when his idea came, but I doubt think George CLinton said "Im gonna write something in Dm today."

He probably got high (or was high) and started jamming or developing his idea.. It's pretty much what everybody does (minus the getting high)

I wouldnt say chord progressions don't go hand in hand with any music. Music theory is the universal language of all music. Yes, I do know a bit of theory.

But, even if I didn't know a lick of theory, if I play a I, IV, V pattern it will sound like a blues song. I don't have to know I'm playing a I IV V pattern. The sound of it won't change because I don't know.

I just prefer to know.

Dre may/may not know music theory, but Im sure the musicians he works with do.

I think it's as the other poster said hip hop/rnb/and even pop IMO involve chord progressions that are spread out over different instruments and parts of the arrangement/tune (instead of having a piano playing block chords).

If in your song, you play 2 chords and repeat them, you have played a chord progression. The fact that you don't know what progression you have played doesnt change what it is.

[Bjones]

Originally Posted by Blast9

LOL you smart-asses

****

@ OP --- Generally it starts with the gutarist chugging on a mean riff with a mean sound.

Then you (the singer) would be inspired by the riff to come up with some melody line.

You get off on the feel of the riff as well as the sound, much as a programmer and rapper would get off on the sound and feel of the hot sample they looped up on the MPC.

Lead gtr generally doesn't have much to do with the birth/beginnings of a new song, but sometimes you come up with a cool vocal melody from noodling around on your guitar.

Personally I do program beats as well, and have def been inspired to come up with the mother of all riffs using this method

Many ways to skin a (rock) cat!

I work similarly.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by max cooper

when I listen to pop stuff like Lennon/McCartney, I actually think it's more like a vocal line harmonizing over a chord progression.

Yes... when the instruments and singing blend together, that's when music becomes really good. "Come as you are" by Nirvana is a great example for that style of writing.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

He probably got high (or was high) and started jamming or developing his idea.. It's pretty much what everybody does (minus the getting high)

Or in Timbalands case, he just steals shit. That new Nelly Furtado single "Say it right" was also heavily inspired by "Stand by me", if you ask me.

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by Bjones

I work similarly.

Word!

[emkay]

If it's the real deal-it starts with an original idea or feeling
If it's the usual shit--it starts with somebody else's idea

know what I'm talking about?

[emkay]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

Yes... when the instruments and singing blend together, that's when music becomes really good. "Come as you are" by Nirvana is a great example for that style of writing.

Good points! All valid. What's sad, is that somebody actually has to post this!
Is the concept of real writing, playing and performing so foreign that we have to state the obvious? Holy shit!!!

[Kiwiburger]

Are we talking about songwriting, or tracking/timing?

I think of songs as being mainly Guitar songs or Piano songs. It's usually fairly obvious which is which, although obviously a lot of crossover.

For recording - i'm still of two minds as to how to approach timing. I have used click tracks of some sort for years, and it's hard to get away from that.

I tend to start with a midi sequence, and then add real instruments, and then maybe pull the midi sequence entirely.

But I have some dissatisfaction with this approach - and I can see the merit in just starting off with a guitar or piano guide track.

Much of the music I adore was started off with a rythmn section playing together - I don't often have that luxury, but I think it's the best.