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darkhorse
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#1
26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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I can't believe tc electronics is finally....

...releasing a public toneprint editor version, wow, too cool, to be able to tweak in a toneprint pedal to suit your personal wants.

When, who knows, but at least they finally got the message a lot of us were dropping the pedals as we could give a crap about "names" creating tones. Everyone is different, trying to sound like someone is at best a beginners myth.

I had traded off a couple of the smaller toneprints but have a new X4. I will reup on a couple when I hear this is coming out.
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#2
26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Finally!! That's great news. I always thought the "star" tone prints were useless. I've never downloaded one. But to make my own that's exciting.
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darkhorse
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litepipe View Post
Finally!! That's great news. I always thought the "star" tone prints were useless. I've never downloaded one. But to make my own that's exciting.
Yep, that's been my view as well. Hope they get this out soon, adds a whole new level of coolness to pedal possibilities. There are a lot of params in these units that we cannot get to so the ability to customize them for personal needs and desires is just major. I will probably reup on a couple of the smaller units.
I am very pleased w the X4 delay after a couple of months being able to fine tune and adjust the standard modes will be really great.
darkhorse
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23rd February 2013
Old 23rd February 2013
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We are still waiting. Beta test version was claimed around the mid of Feb.
Getting to be like Line 6 wait, wait, wait, nothing said, no news.
I hope this thing works as it is pretty much all that keeps me using tc pedals.
Much like T-Rex, tc electronics used to have a sort of mythical quality and level for me, in recent years that has eroded away. Not very impressed these days by the Denmark guys. The higher end tc gear seems to be still worthy but the pedals are losing it for me.
I like the X4 delay but had to send the first one back for back switch and stripped out bottom screw.
#5
23rd February 2013
Old 23rd February 2013
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darkhorse
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23rd February 2013
Old 23rd February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargonof View Post
I' super psyched too, i've always liked the idea of Toneprints but the celebrity aspect of it has always seemed unneccesary to me. The toneprints i've used the most have generally been emulating other units, this one is a favorite: EP-3 Delay - Flashback Delay TonePrint by ProGuitarShop | TC Electronic
I've tried those, I never seem to find one I like much. I usually just work out my own with the modes so expansion of the params is cool. The tape and tube mimics are very good and they do have a great tone, I just tend to eventually return to a cleaner more controlled delay. The 2290 modes are the best sounding delays in that regard and they just tend to add filters and what not to make the delay dirty up in the mimic of tape and such. I was someone vindicated on its use as I saw Jeff Beck's rig was using a rackmount 2290 and a Lexicon for reverbs. Which are totally clean.
The presets that come w the X4 are quite good especially B which is a marvelous sounding Edge U2 2290modulated dual 1/4,1/8 dual delay that nails the Edge thing. I tend to leave that one in place. I think anyone who tries that one is going to be sold on this unit. Much less its vast delay time range, long loop time and dual engine looper. I have just been getting into using the looper and that is a lot of fun. It does allow you to put delay in the loop but it is limited to what is loaded on preset A or at least that is what my unit does. If you want clean loops just turn down the delay mix.

The X4 is a great sounding and versatile delay loaded with features few units can equal. I really liked the smaller Flashback and having some preset ability and storage of 4 toneprint changeable slots is very cool indeed. Once we get the editor having 4 customized settings using the vast params inside the unit will surely make this one of the most sought after delays. Sure Strymon is king and such but a lot more bucks and simply does not have these features. tc needs to step up the reliability of these units and they will become the goto pedal.

Everyone seems to go for the tape or tube modes but I find I like the 2290 better. I do have tape or tube preset which I modified from the Joe Perry lead preset. Will be so nice to be able to set up a personal customized delay. The X4 holds 4 so that will be the great feature of this pedal. I hope it holds up but the sound and tone are certainly better than the build quality. Why they use these fragile switches is anyone's guess. The bottom plate screws you have to remove to try out the buffer or the direct bypass toggle are these ridiculous TorX 10 screw heads which are so uncommon. They never actually tell you this in any manual or FAQ you just have to try various ones realizing nothing fits. One of my screws had been machined into the unit and stripped out I could never get it out. Frustrations with it and the failure of the A switch completely made me return the 1st unit to my vendor. The 2nd one has been fine and I am really careful with it. Others have complained of switch failures. Maybe it's because they wanted these silent switches but they are fragile. One does not "stomp" of them or make sure you do not miss and pop one.
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13th March 2013
Old 13th March 2013
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Editor available

The X4 contains within it vibrato modulation, full ranging Tri-chorus w all 3 chorus params adjustable, a param control through zero-flanger you can use on your delays or merely adjust the pedal to function as a full on chorus or flanger. Within the editor is also an easy access kill dry switch and complete control over the 2290 dynamic delay params, assignable control and complete range of internal params to unit control knobs allow you to set the response curve and range of each knob as well as up to 3 simultaneous params to each pedal knob. Internal editor high and low cut filters.

Editor is complex and does things not fully understood yet as the documentation is in its first stages as well. Just a hell of a lot in the unit much more than imagined. 2 chorus modulations, 2 flange, vibrato, plus you can map the control knobs to do what you wish, increase a param while lowering another, limit the range, slow the curve, just amazing stuff. No pedal does anything like this editor. Once the bugs get worked out this is going to be a rage.

The addition of the toneprint editor with access to the full array of internal params opens up this pedal with features not seen in any delay/looper pedal much less 2 or 3 pedals combined. For $250 it's just a steal.
#8
10th April 2013
Old 10th April 2013
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I've been diddling with the editor on the Flashback and HoF, you can definitely do some cool stuff on it. I made a reverb with no dry signal and varying depth/speed of the modulation modulation which i assigned to the tone control, sounds great for really washy ambient stuff.

One really neat thing is the ability to use the modulation independently, you can basically turn your delay into a custom chorus/flanger/vibrato with extreme tweakability. It sucks that the standard Flashback can't store more than one preset though, hate to dismiss the tape echo toneprint.. I use that setting religiously.
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11th April 2013
Old 11th April 2013
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I posted this on another site about delays in general.

By the way, for any tc toneprint pedal owners and users, the new editor release and new editor guide is available on the tc website for general downloading.

I discussed somewhat before with others there is really no difference in delay pedals, just names. As long as the component quality and circuit are state of the art quality, a digital delay is a digital delay. What makes them sound differently?
Might be more relevant in all honest to ask do they really sound differently, and if so why do they?
Essentially a digital delay is simply the same in any pedal, pristine digital reproductions of what goes it, comes out. So why all the different pedals, minute differences in lo and hi pass filters, saturation level which adds an element of dirt into the delay, modulation to the repeats. Repeat time.

Some love analog delays, these are simply lo fi repeat circuits passed through a bucket brigade of chips which cause a natural loss of frequency dynamics inherent in the analog delay circuit. They call this "warmth". Basically it amounts to a more muddy bass low end and a roll off of the high end.
Analog circuits like tape are limited to the ms time the design can render usually around 500ms.
Tape delay is much of the same except one gets an element of tape warble and flutter adding imperfections into the repeats.

A digital delay line while being inherent pristine clean, opts to add imperfections into the line to mimic the lo fi frequency loss of analog via filters, and the tape warble mimic via modulation applied to the repeats.
Advantages a much longer delay time (the X4 has a full 7secs of delay). The difference between a Strymon or an Eventide might simply be a slight difference (if really any) in the applied filters or modulation on the delay.
In reality we may be paying a lot more for a name than anything really different.

I am reminded of the fickle minds of guitarists recalling Hendrix walking his way through Fuzz Faces trying to find the one he likes. Tech brings about a dozen after one another, Jimi not pleased, he brings him the first one he tried and presto that is the magic one right there. Other players hearing differences in new batteries or even screws in cabinets (not likely).

So, what if a player had every filter, dampening, saturation, upwards of 7 different modulation types (including a through-zero-flanger and a full 6 param adjustable Tri-chorus) for all sorts of modulation including the ability to be as subtle or over the top as one desired? Capability to map the curves of the control knobs on the unit, to change or add up to three control params to each knob and map their curve of what they do?? Decrease a param while increasing one on the same knob? What the hell can do all that? Turn down the delay section and turn the unit into a full blown deep lush Chorus Flanger or Vibrato pedal? The X4.

The straight signal on the X4 passes through the unit untouched, it does not go through a circuit and back out, the result is a delay that lays in the mix so natural to ones true tone you have to hear it to believe how much better it sounds. Also offers 4 toneprint slots for storing your own creations or those offered on the tc site. Three footswitch controlled preset slots for the immediate selection of 3 different delays. Make a change on the fly or add a new mode or tone, save it by holding down a preset for a few seconds. There is also a tap temp feature for any delay or your own. Looper works by flipping a top panel toggle, offering I think it was 40secs of loop w rec, stop/play. play once and stop, undo. The delay and looper engine are separate so you can put delays into the loops, controlled by where the knobs and modes are set when you enter the looper. Turn the delay level down if you do not want delays in the loops.

To list of features nothing gets close to matching what are the downsides of this pedal?
1.) The footswitches could be better, do not "stomp" on this unit. Used with care they seem to fair OK. Do not do the drunken stumble stomp on this unit.
2.) No ms readout, which I like and prefer, which only goes to show you cannot have everything. The tap tempo works to get around this issue.
3.) Probably would be nice to have more presets but this is an improvement over the much loved smaller Flashback. The ability to create your own toneprints is pretty damn cool. It remains to be seen if tc plans to allow saving on ones PC or perhaps a user website for trading presets.
4.) The looper time could be longer but it is primarily a delay pedal. 40secs is longer than it seems.


Is it the best delay because could literally map the effect and response of any other delay? I leave that up to those who try it and open up the internal editor.
#10
11th April 2013
Old 11th April 2013
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You'll get bored with it and sell it in a week.
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11th April 2013
Old 11th April 2013
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Already had it 6 months and participated in the beta editor testing.
What sold me on the pedal remains its foundation when the editor opened up all the internal params, which are far more than any delay I have seen, it just puts it to the point "bored of everything to what", a regress to less control and less features?
Since it can effectively match the effects and tone of any other delay via filters, saturation, dampening, and extensive modulation what is supposed to replace it? I am done looking for a great delay.
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12th April 2013
Old 12th April 2013
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You know, I wasn't that big of a fan of the Flashback X4 when it first came out. It sounded a bit clearer than my Line 6 DL4, but I had all kinds of problems with the expression pedal, and it had two less knobs to tweak the sounds. The learning curve on the X4 is a bit steeper than the DL4 as well, and perhaps it was made even harder by having to unlearn some of the DL4 stuff. Though, once they click in your head, neither one is that difficult to understand.

But now I've finally figured out an expression pedal that works (Ernie Ball VP JR) and TC Elec. has released the tone print editor. So now I've gone from not being too thrilled with it, to absolutely loving it! The tone print editor takes a good while to figure out, as there's so much going on, but once you start to get the hang of it, man is it versatile! The X4 is now my new favorite delay pedal! I can't imagine a better one, for my needs anyway.

I've also experimented a bit with the tone print editor on my Corona Chorus and while it's been fun and interesting, I still just stick to the tri-chorus setting. That standard tri-chorus is just too hard to beat.
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12th April 2013
Old 12th April 2013
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been pulling up some insane modulation on my TC Vortex. lots of fun to play with.
havent messed with my HoF yet as i've been pretty content with the settings there. maybe this weekend...
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17th April 2013
Old 17th April 2013
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I get pretty frustrated with it myself, I have had 3 editor versions now and all have bugs. The features are amazing an they are right there but tc's bright idea that we are too stupid to have their editor software the dummy down of the "public" version has provided a lot of bugs. Sometimes, more than not it does not save to the pedal.
It is a great delay pedal so do not just get it for the toneprint thing as it stands on the merits of its own modes and preset saves without it.
Maybe it's my PC, maybe not, maybe they will perfect it in time, maybe I do not have the patience, so I just use the std modes and adjust to my taste and save them in the presets. Works for me.

If you can go Strymon or Eventide despite maybe less features, but I feel they are still better quality for the higher price.
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